National Secular Society oppose NHS paying for Hospital Chaplains

[Mrs Magpie]

I will never forget the Chaplain at the Gloucester Royal Free where I was taken in 1981 after a a life-threatening miscarriage (I was en route to London and completely alone). He didn't ask me if I wanted a prayer, in fact I can't remember him mentioning God at all. He sat with me, held my hand as I wept and was fantastic. He came in every day to sit with me and talk and cry if I wanted to.

 

[cesare]

It's such a small thing in the scheme of things. I think chaplaincy is probably one of the least offensive aspects of organised religion.

 

[Spion]

secualrism is all very well, untill a tragedy or a bereavement occurs....

Haven't you heard of humanism?

 

[Mrs Magpie]

NHS taxpayers money should either go equally to all religions AND humanists, or none

I think it does already. I've certainly seen Muslim and Sikh chaplains in hospitals. They all work together as a sort of pastoral team.

 

[Mrs Magpie]

Also all this stuff about taxpayers money is a bit of a non-argument. Loads of people of different religions pay taxes too, you know. I'm a taxpayer who wants the chaplains to stay because they do a fantastic job.

 

[spring-peeper]

I will never forget the Chaplain at the Gloucester Royal Free where I was taken in 1981 after a a life-threatening miscarriage (I was en route to London and completely alone). He didn't ask me if I wanted a prayer, in fact I can't remember him mentioning God at all. He sat with me, held my hand as I wept and was fantastic. He came in every day to sit with me and talk and cry if I wanted to.

I've only ever had similar experiences. imo - the chaplains are an integral part of the healing process. Never underestimate the power of faith or the power of having someone care.

 

[Roadkill]

Speaking from my own experience as a chaplain in an institution, dealing with "believers" actually forms a minority of time spent. A lot of time working in the Big House in Brixton was with people who didn't believe in god, and whom I had no intention to "convert."

A friend of mine did a few months in Brixton prison last year. He's an agnostic, but the prison chaplaincy was a huge help to him in terms of support.

He ended up helping out in the chapel, partly for something constructive to do with his time, partly because it got him out of his cell for a couple of hours a day and in part, as he said ruefully, because it gave him an opportunity to have a dump in peace.

 

[Mrs Magpie]

secualrism is all very well, untill a tragedy or a bereavement occurs....

Haven't you heard of humanism?

Secularism and Humanism are not the same thing.

 

[likesfish]

military chaplains good value one we had in Falklands 1991 was an air commodore there rank honorable goes up every year they stay in
could only make "suggestions" but the chain of command so used to taking orders from rank his suggestions were acted on immediatly

 

[Mrs Magpie]

I've only ever had similar experiences. imo - the chaplains are an integral part of the healing process. Never underestimate the power of faith or the power of having someone care.

I would have felt utterly isolated without that Chaplain. I cannot put into word just how important his care was. Nurses and cleaners just don't have the time to sit and talk. I really don't like the thing of 'get rid of the chaplains and there'd be more cleaners'. Why the hell aren't there enough cleaners in the first place? It's shifting the blame away from privatisation and towards an erroneous cause of dirty wards.

 

[Spion]

Also all this stuff about taxpayers money is a bit of a non-argument. Loads of people of different religions pay taxes too, you know. I'm a taxpayer who wants the chaplains to stay because they do a fantastic job.

As I've already said, I'm no objection to taxpayers money being spent on spiritual assistance in hospitals as long as there's an equal slice going to humanists.

Either have it that way or have no money going to any organisation. That way all these people who feel so strongly about their religion can put their money where their mouth is.

As it stands it looks like a privileged monopoly for the church et al

 

[_angel_]

As I've already said, I'm no objection to taxpayers money being spent on spiritual assistance in hospitals as long as there's an equal slice going to humanists.

Either have it that way or have no money going to any organisation. That way all these people who feel so strongly about their religion can put their money where their mouth is.

As it stands it looks like a privileged monopoly for the church et al

As far as I understand it chaplains are there to help anyone who wants them to. It doesn't have to be in a religious way.

I think there are far bigger causes for concern when it comes to where money is spent in the NHS. This seems a bit nit picky.

 

[frogwoman]

Besides it opens the door to all sorts of other creeping privatisation things ...

 

[brasicritique]

Fuck the chaplins , why should they get paid for being in hosptials I always knew that all the main religions are hypocritical parasitical money making schemes but this takes the piss. If they belive in god and charity and doin ggood then the chaplins should offer there services for nothing.

 

[cesare]

Fuck the chaplins , why should they get paid for being in hosptials I always knew that all the main religions are hypocritical parasitical money making schemes but this takes the piss. If they belive in god and charity and doin ggood then the chaplins should offer there services for nothing.

What makes you think the chaplains draw a wage at all? Do you think that chaplains get a wage slip with tax deducted and that?

Christ, you're so fucking thick.

 

[the button]

I certainly never made any money out of the chaplaincy lark. Clearly I missed a trick.

 

[Urbanblues]

When I was 16 I was given the last rights, despite being an atheist. A lifetime later I still feel soiled and abused.

 

[scifisam]

I certainly never made any money out of the chaplaincy lark. Clearly I missed a trick.

Now I'm a bit confused about you saying earlier that chaplains wouldn't be a drain on NHS resources because many of them are part-time. That made it sound like they are paid (because they need to eat, too!)

 

[chainsaw cat]

Beautiful sentiments there, IB


When my late mother died in hospital, she was given the last rites, I have to say despite being a sort of non believer, it was extremely moving, certainly gave me courage and allowed a sort of final 'passing over' and without this 'ritual' I think the grieveing process would have been longer and more intense. It was the same at the Catholic funeral which was very moving and again allowed more 'acceptance' of the loss, bereavement, etc than a secular or even CoE one.

secualrism is all very well, untill a tragedy or a bereavement occurs....

Yeah.

My granny was, loosely speaking, a sin eater... told me some of the ritual some time ago.

I don't believe it any more than I believe in pixies or the ability of the free market to deliver justice in distribution, however.......... it has to be said that on the very few occasions I've been involved, there is a lot of comfort taken.

Primitive superstition most definately, but a help at the time.

I'd still like to see NHS chaplains paid for as-you-go, though, it's a private contract when all is said and done.

 

[scifisam]

I'd still like to see NHS chaplains paid for as-you-go, though, it's a private contract when all is said and done.

That'd probably work out more expensive in the long run, and one of ther roles is to be there on the spot for when people need them - not just for formal tasks they could be called in for.

Though I'm really confused about whether they get paid at all.

 

[chainsaw cat]

military chaplains good value one we had in Falklands 1991 was an air commodore there rank honorable goes up every year they stay in
could only make "suggestions" but the chain of command so used to taking orders from rank his suggestions were acted on immediatly

One place I was at the RC chaplain was called Vicar (surname), the Anglican was called Priest!!


Oh how we laughed as the Orthodox Serbs and Catholic Croats killed each other and the Muslims all around us.


Quite like an episode of Dad's Army. I still chuckle today.


Who said Chaplaincy was an inoffensive manifestation of religion?

Cook and suck my nadgers, fool, it's precisely the insinuation of the religious shite into everyday situations that makes us hate and despise Them.


If they could stick to the margins of society perhaps they could be tolerated.

But not by me.

 

[scifisam]

Bit of a change in attitude between those two posts there, Chainsaw cat. Did a chaplain kick your puppy in the intervening time or something?

 

[spring-peeper]

As I've already said, I'm no objection to taxpayers money being spent on spiritual assistance in hospitals as long as there's an equal slice going to humanists.

Either have it that way or have no money going to any organisation. That way all these people who feel so strongly about their religion can put their money where their mouth is.

As it stands it looks like a privileged monopoly for the church et al

What is a humanist?

 

[chainsaw cat]

No I'm just very focussed on the individual events and the wider picture at the same time.


And I hate christianity


Or 'I'm confused and drunk' as we say in English.

 

[spring-peeper]

I'd still like to see NHS chaplains paid for as-you-go, though, it's a private contract when all is said and done.

Does that mean that the person using the services should pay for them?

 

[spring-peeper]

No I'm just very focussed on the individual events and the wider picture at the same time.


And I hate christianity


Or 'I'm confused and drunk' as we say in English.

Just ask yourself if anyone benefits from the chaplain's kindness and compassion. If the answer is yes, then the chaplains are a good thing.

Don't let your hatred for the organized religion sour you to the help and compassion offered to people like me and Mrs. Magpie.

 

[Frankie Jack]

The paying of a/or many religious representatives to make choices and desisions for the benefit of the person infirmed.. is a dificult one today because of the way religious beliefs can and do insist on laws that are detrimental to the person..

As with governance and politics.. religion has no say when aspects of that religion goes against the benefit and long term assistance of those that need...

Yet another area where aspects of the religious should butt the fuck out...

And then when you die...

That ethnic comunity that would like to build a pyre and burn their dead in the North East..

Having taken the best of our NHS and still Left the planet...(died) Can we be multicultural enough.. to.. respect the way certain cultures not only want to be treated in a certain way medically.. and within death.. theologically...

but have ways of disposing of the body that is not the way the laws of this land do anymore..

 

[Frankie Jack]

Just ask yourself if anyone benefits from the chaplain's kindness and compassion. If the answer is yes, then the chaplains are a good thing.

Don't let your hatred for the organized religion sour you to the help and compassion offered to people like me and Mrs. Magpie.

^^^..

Theologically.. what religion do you follow.. ??

 

[chainsaw cat]

Just ask yourself if anyone benefits from the chaplain's kindness and compassion. If the answer is yes, then the chaplains are a good thing.

Don't let your hatred for the organized religion sour you to the help and compassion offered to people like me and Mrs. Magpie.

There's a lot of wider questions begged there, but this is not the place to stamp and scream.

Some vicars/chaplains etc are exceptionally nice people, despite their insane delusions. I'll give you that.

Same applies to half my family.

Hope you got help when and as you needed it.

 

[scifisam]

The paying of a/or many religious representatives to make choices and desisions for the benefit of the person infirmed.. is a dificult one today because of the way religious beliefs can and do insist on laws that are detrimental to the person..

What choices and decisions? Do you mean last rites, or more than that?