National divides in sport
- Thread starter Biffo
- Start date
Brockway said:
Of course not. The Chechens should take hundreds of women and children as hostages and tortue and massacre them while the Basques should detonate car bombs killing civilians and holiday makers. Meanwhile, bull-shiters like you can take your revenge on centuries of howwid English opression by chanting assinine bigoted chants at footy matchs - well duh!
you can take your revenge on centuries of howwid English opression by chanting assinine bigoted chants at footy matchs
Thanks. But, just out of interest, do tell me what asinine, bigoted chants I've been er, chanting, at football matches... I'd love to know. And you really need to have a look at England's horrendous catalogue of racism and bigotry at football matches before you start making unfounded accusations about sweet and innocent Wales supporters like myself. For example - did you hear what Ingurland fans were chanting at Turkish supporters? And remember when Ingurland fans pelted Ireland supporters with seats and were seen openly seig-heiling? And at Old Trafford Ingurland fans chanted "sheepsh*ggers" throughout our anthem. So what's England's excuse?
And I'm definitely not 'Ernie'. Sorry.
Thanks. But, just out of interest, do tell me what asinine, bigoted chants I've been er, chanting, at football matches... I'd love to know. And you really need to have a look at England's horrendous catalogue of racism and bigotry at football matches before you start making unfounded accusations about sweet and innocent Wales supporters like myself. For example - did you hear what Ingurland fans were chanting at Turkish supporters? And remember when Ingurland fans pelted Ireland supporters with seats and were seen openly seig-heiling? And at Old Trafford Ingurland fans chanted "sheepsh*ggers" throughout our anthem. So what's England's excuse?
And I'm definitely not 'Ernie'. Sorry.
Oh, and not every Chechen is a killer and not every Basque is a car bomber. It's a bit reductive to see them in such hysterical tabloid stereotypes don't you think? When should your average (non-ETA) Basque accept colonization? Can you put a figure on it?
If the Nazis had conquered England. At what point should the English have accepted colonization by their German cousins? Immediately, after a hundred years, or a thousand? Do tell me.
If the Nazis had conquered England. At what point should the English have accepted colonization by their German cousins? Immediately, after a hundred years, or a thousand? Do tell me.
I guess I have to take responsibility for starting this thread. I might have guessed that the usual bitterness would raise it's ugly head again.
We might just as well start dissecting England's Ashes win and discuss whether they would have won without the Welsh and South African boys.
Some people on here would be better off buying a couple of guns, shaving their hair into a mohican and cleaning all the scum of the streets.
We might just as well start dissecting England's Ashes win and discuss whether they would have won without the Welsh and South African boys.
Some people on here would be better off buying a couple of guns, shaving their hair into a mohican and cleaning all the scum of the streets.
lewislewis
Lumumba Cymru
Hollis, what do you think about an English academic referring to Boudicea as an 'English heroine'?
Hollis
bloody furious
lewislewis said:
Definetly sloppy history. Although nation is to an extent defined by geography. I'm sure there's plenty of Italian and German academics who probably refer to past historical figures as Italian and German prior to those nations exisitng as such. I don't however draw the inferences of brockway.
Belushi said:Sad to see another decent thread ruined by tweedledum and tweedletwat
The thread took a downward spiral when we were blessed with this frothing nonsense:
http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=3511027&postcount=5
So do try not to be tedious - unless you actually have anything to say about national divides in sport?
No, thought not.
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
*taps fingers irritably*
This looks like a load of personal squabbling to me. Take it outside.
This looks like a load of personal squabbling to me. Take it outside.
Hollis said:Yes and you, karac and bendeus are trolling the thread.. Why don't you look up bigotry.. an intolerance of opinions different to your own. That is exactly your problem.
Really? have you actually read my posts on this thread or is it that you cant help yourself when the subject of wales comes up?
Hollis
bloody furious
Belushi said:
Yes.. and fascinating to.. I just wonder why you returned to the thread, failed to take on board any of the points made by me & others and just engaged in abuse. I'd call that bigotry. - Ditto karac & bendeus.
If you're discussing issues of national identity, just because its the 'Welsh' forum, doesn't mean that opinions other than those you like/agree with can't be expressed.
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
If everybody is agreed that there is a serious issue to discuss on the thread maybe they could make posts discussing it.
Hollis
bloody furious
Belushi said:
I'm afraid I've made quite afew serious points actually.. its just that you choose to ignore them and start screaming 'bigot'. - There's no anti-Welsh bigotry from me. Though, you'll find an intolerance of some of the lazy anti-English crap that gets posted up.. but seems to pass as okay.
And by the way, I've never had a bad time in Wales.. some of the roads are abit crap though.
FM - point now taken.
colacho
gorau arf, arf dysg
Well, that article sounds like the usual load of old codswallop produced by the media when they try and comment on dullard academics.
Supporting anyone but England at anything is a measure of nationalist feeling. Anyone who supports England at anything is an Uncle Tom as far as I'm concerned. I'll support Argentina, even Germany, rather than the sais. During the last World Cup the Tywi valley was decked out in Brazil flags before the Brazil-England game. Fucking great, I say. I watched that match in Manchester with 250 England fans and couldn't stay in my seat when Rivaldo equalised (it was a brilliant goal though, with that run by Ronaldinho). Fair play to them, they didn't lynch me, in fact I think they behaved impeccably, to the point that I actually apologised to the guy next to me for shrieking in glee when Ronaldinho fluked that second Brazil goal. Before the Beckham-Simeone debacle match in 98 I spent 50 quid on an Argentina shirt (I was living in England at the time) just to piss them off. I wore it for a week afterwards- it was lovely. But it never turned nasty, which is how it should be.
But this whole topic really is a load of old bollocks. Sport brings out the crassest kind of patriotism everywhere, and the reason why England failing is great -and this Ashes victory is utterly depressing- is because we've learnt to hate the gloating and Land of Hope and Glory gobshite that accompanies this sort of event. And we hate it because historically we've been fucked over and told we're shite and inferior by the colonial masters. And we're still patronised and treated as over sensitive sheep-shaggers by enough sais for it to stick in our throats. After all, there are plenty of loony right-wing goons in the English soccer supporting "fraternity", the kind of fuckwits I sat with when England played Spain in a friendly at Villa Park a few years back (and won 3-0- fuck, no!!!!!), arseholes who sang "No surrender to the IRA scum", who go in for all of this in a big way.
In other words, we're touchy about expressions of English nationalism because historically they've been accompanied by a shitting on us froma great height, or at best a patronising cooption of our cultural identity into the "mainstream". Therefore anything that brings English national pride down a peg or two is great news. But it doesn't mean anything more than that English patriotism is something we detest because it's been accompanied by a belittling of our own culture. Our nationalism is defensive, whereas England's has rarely had to be. That's the crucial difference.
But it's all the nationalist nonsense itself that needs scrutinising. There's nothing natural about nations, they're all the result of homogenising violence that imposes a fake "national culture" on a particular territory. Which is why historically marginalised and exploited bits of England (code for, amongst other things, "the North" in general) also have strong grievances against their historical rulers from London.
I have nothing whatsoever against the "English people" today, whoever they are. They aren't personally responsible for historical violence against the Welsh. I loves Manchester, for example, and having lived out of the country for years I probably have more English friends that Welsh ones. So fucking what?
Just don't start telling me that being born in England is something to be prouder of than being born in Wales, or Chad, or Uzbekistan. So fuck off back to Gwent Prof Tanner, or should I call it Monmouthshire, for years claimed by the sais in their invasive maps.
One final point, I was born in Neath and I think it's fucking lovely. I'd rather live there than Cowbridge, or Bath, or York, or just about anywhere else you can name. Port Talbot, on the other hand, is another matter!
Supporting anyone but England at anything is a measure of nationalist feeling. Anyone who supports England at anything is an Uncle Tom as far as I'm concerned. I'll support Argentina, even Germany, rather than the sais. During the last World Cup the Tywi valley was decked out in Brazil flags before the Brazil-England game. Fucking great, I say. I watched that match in Manchester with 250 England fans and couldn't stay in my seat when Rivaldo equalised (it was a brilliant goal though, with that run by Ronaldinho). Fair play to them, they didn't lynch me, in fact I think they behaved impeccably, to the point that I actually apologised to the guy next to me for shrieking in glee when Ronaldinho fluked that second Brazil goal. Before the Beckham-Simeone debacle match in 98 I spent 50 quid on an Argentina shirt (I was living in England at the time) just to piss them off. I wore it for a week afterwards- it was lovely. But it never turned nasty, which is how it should be.
But this whole topic really is a load of old bollocks. Sport brings out the crassest kind of patriotism everywhere, and the reason why England failing is great -and this Ashes victory is utterly depressing- is because we've learnt to hate the gloating and Land of Hope and Glory gobshite that accompanies this sort of event. And we hate it because historically we've been fucked over and told we're shite and inferior by the colonial masters. And we're still patronised and treated as over sensitive sheep-shaggers by enough sais for it to stick in our throats. After all, there are plenty of loony right-wing goons in the English soccer supporting "fraternity", the kind of fuckwits I sat with when England played Spain in a friendly at Villa Park a few years back (and won 3-0- fuck, no!!!!!), arseholes who sang "No surrender to the IRA scum", who go in for all of this in a big way.
In other words, we're touchy about expressions of English nationalism because historically they've been accompanied by a shitting on us froma great height, or at best a patronising cooption of our cultural identity into the "mainstream". Therefore anything that brings English national pride down a peg or two is great news. But it doesn't mean anything more than that English patriotism is something we detest because it's been accompanied by a belittling of our own culture. Our nationalism is defensive, whereas England's has rarely had to be. That's the crucial difference.
But it's all the nationalist nonsense itself that needs scrutinising. There's nothing natural about nations, they're all the result of homogenising violence that imposes a fake "national culture" on a particular territory. Which is why historically marginalised and exploited bits of England (code for, amongst other things, "the North" in general) also have strong grievances against their historical rulers from London.
I have nothing whatsoever against the "English people" today, whoever they are. They aren't personally responsible for historical violence against the Welsh. I loves Manchester, for example, and having lived out of the country for years I probably have more English friends that Welsh ones. So fucking what?
Just don't start telling me that being born in England is something to be prouder of than being born in Wales, or Chad, or Uzbekistan. So fuck off back to Gwent Prof Tanner, or should I call it Monmouthshire, for years claimed by the sais in their invasive maps.
One final point, I was born in Neath and I think it's fucking lovely. I'd rather live there than Cowbridge, or Bath, or York, or just about anywhere else you can name. Port Talbot, on the other hand, is another matter!
SeniorSbagliato
Having a coniption fit
Tidy post 
