My daughters primary school is asking for money. Is that normal?

Discussion in 'education & employment' started by ATOMIC SUPLEX, Feb 20, 2018.

  1. alex_

    alex_ Well-Known Member

    Scarety of housing ( Surrey ), isolation ( Scottish highlands ) , all sorts of reasons depending upon location.

    I think you are correct re the aims of government strategy re academies. In the case of working around national pay bargaining which means academies in higher cost of living areas can recruit teachers on a bit more cash, I don’t see how that is a bad thing.

    Alex
     
  2. Santino

    Santino lovelier than lovely

    Fuck right off; that's the argument.
     
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  3. chilango

    chilango *shrugs*

    A national pay scale doesn't necessarily mean all workers being paid the same regardless of geographical location. The teachers' pay includes London and London fringe weightings for example.

    What it should stop is different schools in the same area paying differently.

    Where I live many schools are outside the pay scale.

    Guess what? the rich kids are taught by better paid teachers than the poor kids.
     
  4. littlebabyjesus

    littlebabyjesus one of Maxwell's demons

    Can't believe we're having this convo on here, tbh.

    I'll leave it there.
     
  5. littlebabyjesus

    littlebabyjesus one of Maxwell's demons

    And of course the creeping normalisation of the idea that parents 'top up' school funds just reinforces such things.
     
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  6. existentialist

    existentialist Danced on by a twerking bee

    It almost certainly is voluntary, but they are going to fall over themselves not to tell you that, because most people will just grumblingly cough up.

    My school used to ask for a termly £10 for the "activities fund". It was also voluntary, but woe betide any boy who didn't turn up with the readies. I can remember being asked to stand up at registration and say why I hadn't brought my £10 in. My dad had told me - jokingly - to say that he "had spent it all on the horses". Being of a somewhat literal persuasion, and not being aware of the phrase, I told them exactly that. "Insolence", I think it said on the detention form. :rolleyes:
     
  7. littlebabyjesus

    littlebabyjesus one of Maxwell's demons

    Sorry was going to leave it, but this is absolutely mad. You think national pay bargaining is a force downwards on pay? Have a look around the world at places where national pay bargaining is common and compare them to the places where it is not common, then come back to me.
     
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  8. chilango

    chilango *shrugs*

    Also look at the places that pay above the pay scale. Ask yourself who benefits in/from those schools?
     
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  9. alex_

    alex_ Well-Known Member

    No, it means that public sector workers in huge chunks of the country are underpaid vs the local cost of living.

    And the London weighting is an acknowledgement of this.

    The solution to this is probably weighting salaries nationally by cost of living, but it’d cost more money and have winners and losers so won’t happen.

    Alex
     
  10. chilango

    chilango *shrugs*

    ...and who should set these salaries?
     
  11. sheothebudworths

    sheothebudworths Up the bum - no babies!!!

    You can check out the impact of cuts on your local schools here Join the campaign to oppose UK school cuts

    Academies are shit but this is about funding cuts - it's fucking shameful.
    There's a big campaign here, with some schools/colleges displaying banners outside showing the loss in funding city-wide and to the school - often running into hundreds of pounds, per child.
    Cake sales don't cut it when you have small primaries losing £350 for each pupil in a year, so I guess this is the next, desperate step.

    ETA - I just checked the area in London that I grew up in and a quick scan sees lots of schools heading toward double that, too.
     
  12. cupid_stunt

    cupid_stunt Dyslexic King Cnut the Great.

    The link on there to check local schools throws up, near me, schools are losing anywhere between £13 & £574 per pupil, that's a massive different between schools. :confused:
     
  13. littlebabyjesus

    littlebabyjesus one of Maxwell's demons

    Fuck. I didn't know it was that bad.

    Chilango's right that this is creeping towards a voucher system. A friend of mine was sending his kid to an academy primary in West London that had a lot of kids with rich parents who were destined for private schools at secondary level. Such parents would happily make up this kind of shortfall, seeing it as a saving.
     
    muscovyduck and sheothebudworths like this.
  14. Winot

    Winot I wholeheartedley agree with your viewpoint

    I'm not a great expert on this, but Mrs W is a governor at our state primary and I think one of the issues is cuts to SEN provision hit some schools a lot harder than others.
     
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  15. sheothebudworths

    sheothebudworths Up the bum - no babies!!!

    ETA - this is a link to the methodology - Join the campaign to oppose UK school cuts

    And this is a link to the detailed school cuts data - Dropbox - school_cuts_data
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2018
  16. Winot

    Winot I wholeheartedley agree with your viewpoint

  17. ATOMIC SUPLEX

    ATOMIC SUPLEX Member Since: 1985 Post Count: 3

    Set to loose 50K by 2020. It all looks pretty grim around my way.
    All the secondary schools we are looking at are set to loose about £200 per pupil per year. Bloody hell.

    . . .
    That is except for the god schools, who seem to only loose £30 per child. Not that that is good either. Just seems a bit disproportionate.


    Edit.
    Arrrh. And the school my daughter is most likely going to get into is loosing about £260 per pupil per year.
     
  18. sheothebudworths

    sheothebudworths Up the bum - no babies!!!

    You can't focus on the figures. That's actually not too bad :( and the WORST thing to do is to start selecting schools based on that because it has fuck all to do with the standard of teaching, or the commitment of the teachers there, or the warmth of the school etc etc. You drive good schools into the ground when you make decisions based on the *lack* of funding they're receiving - that's not the point of posting the links, at all.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2018
    wayward bob and existentialist like this.
  19. friedaweed

    friedaweed Sitting down for a wee

    The relevant fact here would actually be the amount the head at Suplex's bairns school was on ;)
     
  20. alex_

    alex_ Well-Known Member

    Which is ?
     
  21. doodlelogic

    doodlelogic arbitrary message here

    Headteacher’s pay is a distraction. At a primary it’s not going to swing much. Workers deserve a decent wage for the job.

    The real issue is the rejig of funding formulas to protect leafy shores from national cuts.

    And what happened to the sugary drinks money that was supposed to plug the hole in the schools budget?
     
  22. sim667

    sim667 Licking windows on the 303 bus.

    Can't say this surprises me, its been a long time coming.

    When I was working in FE I taught a few courses..... generally on the National Diploma courses our materials funding would run out in Janurary/February and then we'd have to try and recycle old uncollected artwork, and beg/borrow/steal stuff from around the colleges and local businesses.

    On our A-level courses, for the last 3 years or so we'd get £0 (yes, thats right, nothing) funding for materials, so we had to implement a system where students who wanted to do the course paid £50....... then we'd be militant with our supplies.
     
  23. friedaweed

    friedaweed Sitting down for a wee

  24. alex_

    alex_ Well-Known Member

  25. baldrick

    baldrick ooooh timewarp

    Yes, if you're in an area with lots of academies.

    I see it in my job (school support staff) where starting salaries now, for a job across a trust, so more responsibility and more work are less than what I was on five years ago. This is normal now. Academisation has been awful for salaries and working conditions in general.
     
    scifisam likes this.
  26. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model One star in sight

    Orang Utan spent much of his school librarian wages on new books for the collection
     
  27. TruXta

    TruXta tired

    More power to his elbow, but that's still a fucked up situation, and no one should expect teachers or anyone else to cough up for what should be basic stuff.
     
    Pickman's model likes this.
  28. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model One star in sight

    I agree.
     
  29. not-bono-ever

    not-bono-ever Not what they want but what is good for them

    i know a few teachers who top up their classrooms consumables from their own pockets just to keep a lid on things and to avoid the hassle. my employer has been doing it for years. (without him knowing)
     
  30. chilango

    chilango *shrugs*

    I've known plenty of teachers who buy additional resources out of their own pockets.
     
    not-bono-ever likes this.

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