My cat: Full of surprises...

[GarfieldLeChat]

Stop talking in fucking riddles.

yeah like that's gonna happen

get the cat chopped there's enough sparrow killers in the world without adding to them...

 

[Pieface]

Eventually they would grow and look after themselves, they'd be catching mice and living in cities in much the same way that foxes do (not the catching mice thing, but the living in cities thing)

do you really really think this would happen? You must have seen the stray populations in Greece??? They are not across the board healthy cats......

Do you think a cat population of that level would be fun to live with - kittens and shit and more roadkill?

It would be fab if they all caught loads of rats but I have a feeling we'd just have more scavengers (that's how the urban foxes survive - shredding the bin bags your neighbours leave on the ground).

 

[Wookey]

do you really really think this would happen? You must have seen the stray populations in Greece??? They are not across the board healthy cats......

Do you think a cat population of that level would be fun to live with - kittens and shit and more roadkill?

It would be fab if they all caught loads of rats but I have a feeling we'd just have more scavengers (that's how the urban foxes survive - shredding the bin bags your neighbours leave on the ground).

Me not having my cat neutered is not going to cause all this though.

Everyone refusing to have their cat neutered might, but I'm not advocating that. I'm describing my response to a surprise situation that I was trying to avoid, remember. I am aware that my beliefs are contrary to the communal good. I'm lucky I live in such a well-ordered nation that this doesn't preclude me from owning an intact pet. Most people do fall for the health literature, which comes without any reference to my point of view at all, afaics.

 

[Pieface]

Me not having my cat neutered is not going to cause all this though.
.

I know - I wasn't really applying myself to your thread, wookey It was the later discussion that grabbed me

I can see that the lipstick/tuppence incident was a shock.....

 

[girasol]

do you really really think this would happen? You must have seen the stray populations in Greece??? They are not across the board healthy cats......

Do you think a cat population of that level would be fun to live with - kittens and shit and more roadkill?

It would be fab if they all caught loads of rats but I have a feeling we'd just have more scavengers (that's how the urban foxes survive - shredding the bin bags your neighbours leave on the ground).

I've seen stray populations in Brazil, a lot. Where there's space, in smaller towns, it never seemed to be a problem. What happens in more densely populated cities is a whole different story, obviously.

I've been going further and further towards the extreme end of this argument, though. When I started posting on this thread I did so because I've always felt vaguely uncomfortable with what's done to pets, and as the thread progressed I started to realise just how very uncomfortable I feel. I just can't help it.

The more I think about it the more I realise how much control we have over our 'pets' and I don't feel entirely comfortable with it.

so... I think I'll go and hug a tree, nothing wrong with that after all.

 

[Wookey]

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

The problem with 'unwanted' kittens: it's people who decide that they are unwanted. If they were left to their own devices they would be raised by their mothers, some would probably die due to natural selection, but nature has a way of balancing things out. Eventually they would grow and look after themselves, they'd be catching mice and living in cities in much the same way that foxes do (not the catching mice thing, but the living in cities thing)

At one of my jobs there is a group of ferral cats. I've worked there three years and there has been a complete turnover in cats twice in those two years. I've seen some so badly injured in fights that they'd lie under a sewer grate and take a few days to die. Ferral cats don't live a long, happy life.

 

[Reno]

http://www.catchat.org/neuter.html :

There are 21,000 reasons why you should get your cat neutered ~ because that's potentially how many offspring could result from one un-neutered female cat and her descendants in just seven years!

There is a cat over-population crisis in the UK today, which results in 1,000's of healthy but unwanted cats and kittens being destroyed EVERY DAY because there are not enough homes to go round.

Neutering your cats, male or female, is the best and most humane way of reducing the stray cat population, helping lower the instances of F.I.V. and fight-injuries, and preventing healthy cats from being destroyed.



http://dede.essortment.com/catsspayneuter_reta.htm :

MYTHS ABOUT NEUTERING:

A common myth about neutering is that it will change the cat's basic personality. In reality, he won't suffer any emotional reaction or identity crisis as a result of neutering. It will also make him less likely to bite. Another myth is that he'll become frustrated and miss sex. This is also erroneous. Cats have no concept of sexual identity or ego.

 

[Epona]

It's so much better to not have him neutered now and then you can have the fun of watching him waste away with cancer later - maybe you don't realise quite how common testicular cancer is in unneutered toms, but you wouldn't want to dent his (your) ego by preventing that, eh. Anyway tumorous nads are such fun.

 

[Wookey]

It's so much better to not have him neutered now and then you can have the fun of watching him waste away with cancer later - maybe you don't realise quite how common testicular cancer is in unneutered toms, but you wouldn't want to dent his (your) ego by preventing that, eh. Anyway tumorous nads are such fun.

I see your logic, yes.

Again, castration would be a good remedy for testicular cancer in males, though I don;t advocate surgery as a medical prophylactic in humans either. And there are cases of females having full mastectomies simply because there is a history of cancer in the family. That strikes me as somewhat fatalistically grim-minded. Still, if my cat gets testicular cancer (how common is it, did you say? I didn't hear a figure.) then I know he at least had a happy life, and I won't have mutilated him to conform to a vetinarian's idea of how long a cat should last. If the cat disagrees with my decision, I can at least find succour in the fact that he's patently too stupid and without ego to give a shit.

 

[Wookey]

I've made my mind up anyway, I'm not ruling out castration later on, if I think it would be better for Cookie and for no other reason, but after my research I think early castration does have physical effects on his development as a male, and I'm not happy with doing that. So he's going to be allowed to grow to adulthood, with all his endocrine-system intact and working, and his full faculties as nature intended them to work. If the sky falls in, I'll know I made the wrong decision. He's currently screwing around in a waste paper basket in the corner, looking at me like I'm mad for laughing at him.

 

[Chairman Meow]

Wookey, what about what Reno said though? Having talked to loads of vets and animal welfare people about this, I have yet to meet anyone who is anti-neutering, for all the reasons mentioned already. It really is better - less sick unhappy kits all round.

 

[Wookey]

Wookey, what about what Reno said though? Having talked to loads of vets and animal welfare people about this, I have yet to meet anyone who is anti-neutering, for all the reasons mentioned already. It really is better - less sick unhappy kits all round.

I think in the long run, neutering is better for the cat on the evidence I've seen. I haven't seen any evidence that says FIV or testicular cancer is inevitable if I don't castrate Cookie.

I've also read the findings of the only long-term test on kittens neutured at 7 weeks, 7 months and not at all. There were hardly any developmental differences between the first two groups, including urethra size (used to be a concern apparently) and temperament.

The difference between the first two groups and the third was more marked, and involved secondary masculine characteristics like flanks, jowels, leaner muscle, etc. This is because the endocrine system has been allowed to fully form. (In the US, the new thing is to castrate very early, at 8 weeks or so...)

So that's my thinking. If I really have to neuter Cookie to make him safer in his environment, then I will. And some evidence as to spraying and fighting and such would make this easier to do. But my bottom line is that he is allowed to develop to adulthood and his full form before I do anything.

If he'd been a girl like I wanted, none of this would have arisen. But now it has I have to negotiate what I think is best for my cat, and the more I read the literature on neutering the more I recognise a really heavy kind of agenda, like I need to be convinced. They read cynicism as laziness or poor ownership, when Cookie's welfare and dignity as a living thing are my main priority.

And no, getting cancer isn't dignified either, but I'm really very Buddhist when it comes to shit like that. Nothing lives forever.

 

[Chairman Meow]

I think in the long run, neutering is better for the cat on the evidence I've seen. I haven't seen any evidence that says FIV or testicular cancer is inevitable if I don't castrate Cookie.

I've also read the findings of the only long-term test on kittens neutured at 7 weeks, 7 months and not at all. There were hardly any developmental differences between the first two groups, including urethra size (used to be a concern apparently) and temperament.

The difference between the first two groups and the third was more marked, and involved secondary masculine characteristics like flanks, jowels, leaner muscle, etc. This is because the endocrine system has been allowed to fully form. (In the US, the new thing is to castrate very early, at 8 weeks or so...)

So that's my thinking. If I really have to neuter Cookie to make him safer in his environment, then I will. And some evidence as to spraying and fighting and such would make this easier to do. But my bottom line is that he is allowed to develop to adulthood and his full form before I do anything.

If he'd been a girl like I wanted, none of this would have arisen. But now it has I have to negotiate what I think is best for my cat, and the more I read the literature on neutering the more I recognise a really heavy kind of agenda, like I need to be convinced. They read cynicism as laziness or poor ownership, when Cookie's welfare and dignity as a living thing are my main priority.

And no, getting cancer isn't dignified either, but I'm really very Buddhist when it comes to shit like that. Nothing lives forever.

I always thought that neutering was done after maturity anyway (6 plus months). In which case, I totally agree with you.

 

[Wookey]

I always thought that neutering was done after maturity anyway (6 plus months). In which case, I totally agree with you.

Posters have been saying have him done now, and much of the literature states that 6 months is the optimum time in male cats (in the US, much earlier). It's effectively like castrating a teenager, and not allowing the bumfluff to turn to bristle.

As far as FIV goes, it's passed on not through sex but through biting. So the only real way of 100% preventing your cat from getting it is to keep him indoors his whole life. I don't think I've got a fighting cat, or a wanderer. He's extra timid, and always has been (except with me and Mr Stibs). So the castration is meant to stop the wandering and the fighting during which he might contract FIV - and on it's own the wandering and fighting doesn't bother me. So I'm weighing up how much I feel his full physical development is worth throwing away on a risk, and it would have to be some risk. I'm not sure it is.

 

[May Kasahara]

That's interesting re. the suggested neutering age - I had both of mine done at about 6 months, on the advice on the CPA they came from. I hadn't let them out before then anyway (too worried they would wander under a bus or something).

 

[Reno]

Posters have been saying have him done now, and much of the literature states that 6 months is the optimum time in male cats (in the US, much earlier). It's effectively like castrating a teenager, and not allowing the bumfluff to turn to bristle.

That's true and you shouldn't have him neutered when very young. I'm really glad you are considering it though.

 

[Wookey]

That's true and you shouldn't have him neutered when very young. I'm really glad you are considering it though.

He's nearly 6 months now. I shall review the situation (Fagin-style) when he's 9 months, or fully grown, whichever comes first.