My cat: Full of surprises...

[Gromit]

When i first read the OP I thought the cat had eaten a wand of lipstick and had just poo'd it out.

 

[WouldBe]

'homeless kittens starving to death' LOL cats can fend for themselves!!!

That would depend on wether the owner of (unwanted) kittens lets them get weaned or takes them off and dumps them at only a few days old.

 

[Disaster]

I thought you meant an actual lipstick. It took me a while to realise what you were on about. I have been trying to reassure myself that I'm clever all week

 

[Wookey]

I should point out that I asked for a female, partly because I didn't want to have to neuter a male. I could have allowed the female one litter, and then neutured (as a compromise). But having a male cat and neutering him has never appealed to me - so when Cookie turned into Cookey (to match Wookey, you see, mini-me romanticisation again!!) it did change how I was approaching things.

The man who told me he was a girl is going to get a graphic lesson in sexing a kitten next time I see him.

 

[Wookey]

I thought you meant an actual lipstick. It took me a while to realise what you were on about. I have been trying to reassure myself that I'm clever all week

Bless you. Don't worry, you weren't alone it seems. You can use 'lipstick' now* and for free!! Just credit where it's due.

*oo-er

 

[May Kasahara]

oh dear, where exactly did I say that?

Oh dear, where did I say you had?

Also, this 'here's hoping cookie doesn't contract FIV' business is quite nasty. So if he did contract it, would you be coming back here to say 'I told you so'?

Is there any need to put such unpleasant words in my mouth just because we disagree? Of course I won't be coming back on here and gloating if he does, because I care about animal welfare and wouldn't wish any cat to contract this disease, hence why I also hope that other people's cats don't contract FIV. I would be absolutely gutted if either of my cats came home with FIV.

A lot of people here are totally brainwashed regarding neutering cats and cat's natural behaviour and it seems no one is prepared to accept that there is an alternative. Most people here haven't even had first hand experience of animals that haven't been neutered and are only repeating what they have heard over and over again, doesn't mean it's necessarily the truth.

Anyway, if you lot think that it's ok to mutilate animals just so they fit within your living standards, then I haven't got much chance of convincing you otherwise have I? Just in the same way there's no way I'll ever accept it's the right thing to do.

If I thought it was okay to mutilate animals simply to fit in with my living standards, perhaps I would be out there campaigning for declawing or removal of the voicebox to be legalised in this country. I am not, because these practices truly are mutilations whose benefits are solely to the person, not the animal. So I'll thank you not to paint me in such an emotive light.

It is true that neutering can be argued to have secondary benefits for the humans who live with cats, but the primary reason that the majority of people in this country neuter is the demonstrable health benefit to their animal. I agree that animal welfare organisations and veterinary surgeries could be clearer in separating primary and secondary benefits in their literature, but that doesn't change my opinion that neutering a much-loved pet cat is all part and parcel of taking responsibility for its health and wellbeing, just like keeping it free of fleas, taking it to the vet when it's injured or sick, and providing it with food, warmth, shelter and loving interaction. I didn't neuter my cats because I couldn't be arsed with the spraying and the yowling; I did it because I wanted to lessen their chances of contracting disease and being hurt through fighting or misadventure, and because I didn't want to contribute to the population of unwanted cats from which they came in the first place.

 

[Superape]

I mutilated my tom the same way I got myself mutilated for birth control purposes. It's the responsible thing to do.

He's still out there catching mice, chasing dogs & having a high old time of it. He doesn't have a wife, as far as I know, so I don't know he she feels about it.

He's a cat. I don't need to get him to sign a form or explain the birds & bees.

 

[mrsfran]

DP. May Kashahara said what I wanted to in a nicer way.

 

[ChrisFilter]

p.s. just for the record, I'm also against doing it to female cats, I think they're entitled to at least one litter before being neutured.

How cruel to deny them the chance to have a least one litter!

Again, romanticised crap! Cats aren't capable of abstract thought, so they won't sit their pining for a baby they don't even know they can have.

The implication of cruelty is completely out of order. It takes half an hour to neuter or spay a cat, and in the case of my girls, they were bouncing around, chirpy as ever, that evening.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

I've never seen castration as a valid birth control in humans, it's hard for me to see it as valid in cats

cat != human

 

[girasol]

cat != human

human != god

 

[ChrisFilter]

In an ideal world, I would allow my female cat to have at least one litter. That's what we planned with the last one. I don't think it's up to me to deny them being a mum if that's what nature says. Call me crazy!!

If you're following the "it's not nature's way" (how very Littlejohn ) argument, then really you shouldn't have domesticised pets at all. By providing food, shelter, jabs, flea treatments you're already interfering in it's life.

Wanting a cat to have balls so it can fulfill sexual urges that are only there because of it's balls seems slightly nonsensical to me. Cats don't enjoy sex, and as I've said, aren't capable of abstract thought.

 

[Wookey]

It is true that neutering can be argued to have secondary benefits for the humans who live with cats, but the primary reason that the majority of people in this country neuter is the demonstrable health benefit to their animal. I agree that animal welfare organisations and veterinary surgeries could be clearer in separating primary and secondary benefits in their literature, but that doesn't change my opinion that neutering a much-loved pet cat is all part and parcel of taking responsibility for its health and wellbeing, just like keeping it free of fleas, taking it to the vet when it's injured or sick, and providing it with food, warmth, shelter and loving interaction. I didn't neuter my cats because I couldn't be arsed with the spraying and the yowling; I did it because I wanted to lessen their chances of contracting disease and being hurt through fighting or misadventure, and because I didn't want to contribute to the population of unwanted cats from which they came in the first place.

I totally respect that, I really do. And I understand it, your priority is for the health of the cat.

I think my priority is to not interfere with the essential nature of the cat if I can at all help it. For instance, if my cat pissed off and went and lived with a neighbour, I wouldn't bring him back if the neighbour didn't want me to - I would trust the cat to go where he wants, where he's happy. I don't want to 'own' an animal in that sense, because that sense of ownership makes me feel uncomfortable. In my eyes it compromises the cat's nobility, and innate wildness.

Cookey isn't my child, I don't need or want him to be. We're friends, across species, and friends don't cut each other's knackers off if they don't really, really have to.

It's hard to explain without sounding flippant, I'm sorry.

 

[girasol]

Is there any need to put such unpleasant words in my mouth just because we disagree? Of course I won't be coming back on here and gloating if he does, because I care about animal welfare and wouldn't wish any cat to contract this disease, hence why I also hope that other people's cats don't contract FIV. I would be absolutely gutted if either of my cats came home with FIV.

Sorry May, didn't mean to put unpleasant words into your mouth.

I believe that all this neutering isn't done for the cat's benefit, it's done for the convenience of the pet 'owners'. It seems that cats have got to give up way too much for the benefit of having a roof over their heads and a regular supply of food, at the expense of the freedom to reproduce and lead a more feline existence (rather than an existence molded by us).

But we seem to be going around in circles now, so I'm going to go and do some work.

 

[Superape]

Sorry May, didn't mean to put unpleasant words into your mouth.

I believe that all this neutering isn't done for the cat's benefit, it's done for the convenience of the pet 'owners'. It seems that cats have got to give up way too much for the benefit of having a roof over their heads and a regular supply of food, at the expense of the freedom to reproduce and lead a more feline existence (rather than an existence molded by us).

But we seem to be going around in circles now, so I'm going to go and do some work.

You seem to be under the impression that you have one of these:

instead of one of these:

The former is wild, the latter is domesticated.

 

[ChrisFilter]

I believe that all this neutering isn't done for the cat's benefit, it's done for the convenience of the pet 'owners'. It seems that cats have got to give up way too much for the benefit of having a roof over their heads and a regular supply of food, at the expense of the freedom to reproduce and lead a more feline existence (rather than an existence molded by us).

But this is just it, they're not giving anything up!!!

 

[ChrisFilter]

The former is wild, the latter is domesticated.

And has been for hundreds of years.. to suggest that any of the millions of domesticated, neutered cats that live in pampered, happy luxury are missing out seems ludicrous to me.

I'd almost be tempted to lose my balls for a life of luxury

 

[Gromit]

I did it because I wanted to lessen their chances of contracting disease and being hurt through fighting or misadventure, and because I didn't want to contribute to the population of unwanted cats from which they came in the first place.

Cutting a cats knackers off completely changes a cat's personality and is messing with nature.

Okay there are benefits but lets compare it to the pill.

Some women say using the pill is wrong as it alters their personality and is messing with nature. Should they be forced to take it because of the associated medical benefits?

 

[Reno]

Not having a tom snipped is sentimental, anthropomorphic bollocks and irresponsible in all the ways outlined by others who posted before. Please talk to an animal shelter or a vet about it if you don't believe what people are saying on here.

 

[Wookey]

If you're following the "it's not nature's way" (how very Littlejohn ) argument, then really you shouldn't have domesticised pets at all. By providing food, shelter, jabs, flea treatments you're already interfering in it's life.

Wanting a cat to have balls so it can fulfill sexual urges that are only there because of it's balls seems slightly nonsensical to me. Cats don't enjoy sex, and as I've said, aren't capable of abstract thought.

I'd help any animal who was hungry or in pain, not just the ones I 'own'. If Cookie wants to hang around the house then fair enough, if I stopped feeding him he'd soon find another place to live.

I'll keep my cat healthy, and for me that means being healthily intact. It's a prioritisation that humans have to make for themselves, don't we? The way I see it, it's the least invasive way, and I wouldn't have had a boy if it meant castrating them. I wanted a girl, so this didn't arise.

Now it has arisen (! ) I find myself unwilling to interfere with the cat's nature in this way - I believe cats enjoy climbing trees and chasing fluff and eating birds and yowling because that's in the very nature of cats - just as walking and talking and eating and laughing are in the very nature of humans, and it makes us feel intrinsically good and ordered when we exercise this nature.

I don't expect the cat to have a karma sutra, but to reduce it's sexual urges to a chemical impulse could equally be done to all species, including us, and I don't think the world has to be as brutally clinical as that.

 

[girasol]

But this is just it, they're not giving anything up!!!

I disagree, I think they are. They are giving up their most basic instinct, the instinct to reproduce. Yes, they may not think and ponder about it, but I certainly do, and I think that it's wrong.

 

[mrsfran]

I'll keep my cat healthy, and for me that means being healthily intact. It's a prioritisation that humans have to make for themselves, don't we? The way I see it, it's the least invasive way, and I wouldn't have had a boy if it meant castrating them. I wanted a girl, so this didn't arise.

But by leaving him intact, you are infact risking him being very un-healthy. FIV is a serious disease and easily communicable to unneutered males. Your cat doesn't know how to wear a condom.

 

[Wookey]

Not having a tom snipped is sentimental, anthropomorphic bollocks and irresponsible in all the ways outlined by others who posted before. Please talk to an animal shelter or a vet about it if you don't believe what people are saying on here.

What you see as humanising animals, I see as animalising myself.

 

[Gromit]

Some toms never bother to leave the house after being done.
Its one reason why vets suggest it to owners who live near busy roads.

My opinion, don't get a cat if you live near a busy road. Get a dog.
Turning a cat from a vibrant, fucking, killing machine into a couch potato (albeit a happy one) for human pleasure of pet possesion seems wrong to me.

 

[Wookey]

But by leaving him intact, you are infact risking him being very un-healthy. FIV is a serious disease and easily communicable to unneutered males. Your cat doesn't know how to wear a condom.

I have a ship canal on one side of me, a train track on another, roads on the other two sides, and a rampaging feline disease to contend with.

I can't see Cookie lasting long, tbh.

 

[Reno]

What you see as humanising animals, I see as animalising myself.

Not having him done is the feline eqiuvalent of going out and having lots of unprotected sex. As a gayer you should know that's not a good idea.

 

[Wookey]

It's the feline equvalent of going out and having lots of unprotected sex and as a gayer you should know that's not a good idea.

As a 'gayer' I also know that castration is cutting off your nose to spite your nob.

 

[Reno]

As a 'gayer' I also know that castration is cutting off your nose to spite your nob.

Whatever

What's to be expected from a man who goes and kills Moomins after all.

 

[girasol]

As a 'gayer' I also know that castration is cutting off your nose to spite your nob.

yes, quite. 'Let's castrate everyone because there's a risk people might get STDs'

 

[Wookey]

Jim Davidson.