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My cat: Full of surprises...

You were going to get her tubes tied when you thought she was a she, the knackers are no different, chop thme of for all the good reasons above


can we have some more pics?
 
May Kasahara said:
He is very cute indeed, but please please do get him neutered. Unneutered toms wander further, fight more and obviously produce more baby kitties - the upshot of this, unfortunately, is a wider spread of disease, other people's cats getting hurt/infected, and lots and lots of darling little fluffy kits being thrown in the river or given away for dog bait.

Do the right thing, eh? :)

The right thing for who?

Certainly not the poor cat, but, yes, definetely for the owners, a lot less hassle for them.
 
Strumpet said:
It's irresponsible imo not to. Way too many stray and abandoned souls about to add to the pile.
Oh may said so too :D


Goooooorgeous thing though! :cool:

cats are quite capable to look after themselves you know, they're not helpless - they are independent animals who can fend for themselves.
 
Iemanja said:
The right thing for who?

Certainly not the poor cat, but, yes, definetely for the owners, a lot less hassle for them.

The spraying is certainly only a problem for the owners but if an unnuetered tomcat wanders more then he more than likely stands a better chance of getting run over, which wouldn't be good for him. And getting into more fights, also not so good for him. Bites can lead to abcesses which are nasty.
 
ScallyWag II said:
The spraying is certainly only a problem for the owners but if an unnuetered tomcat wanders more then he more than likely stands a better chance of getting run over, which wouldn't be good for him. And getting into more fights, also not so good for him. Bites can lead to abcesses which are nasty.

Yes, that is all true, but the truth is (apart from getting run over) this is all natural cat behaviour, it's what they do.

I wonder if they get depressed, like humans do, because they're not allowed to live their lives according to their natural instincts, in exchange for a 'safe' (but probably a bit dull and without any challenges) life.

Anyway, I'm a bit of hypocrite on this one as I've been promised a kitten, I love cats, and when the time comes, I might end up neutering the kitten too, although I won't at first and will see how that goes. I'm well aware that there's a difference between idealism and reality, so I'll take it as it comes. I have had cats before which weren't neutered, and come from a country where there are a lot of cats in the streets.

On a similar vein, I'll never have a dog, not living in London, however if I lived in a farm or somewhere where it can come and go as it pleases, I definetely would, as I'm rather fond of dogs too.
 
Iemanja said:
The right thing for who?

Certainly not the poor cat, but, yes, definetely for the owners, a lot less hassle for them.

Why is it 'certainly not' the right thing for the cat then? As I stated above: an unneutered tom wanders further, fights more and makes lots more baby cats. Wandering more = higher chance of being run over/trapped/meeting with some other fate. Fighting more = higher chance of contracting FIV and/or passing it on to other poor cats, not to mention pustulent abscesses which may go untreated depending on when the unneutered tom decides to come home (this is assuming you can get him in the cat box to take to the vet - unneutered toms are a lot less pliable and less likely to enjoy a touchy-feely relationship with their humans). Making lots more baby cats = lots more homeless kittens starving to death or growing up to perpetuate the cycle of fighting, fucking and spreading disease. Call me old-fashioned but I don't see that as being particularly beneficial to the cat population in general or the unneutered tom in question.

As is often stated on these boards, a lot of undesirable states are 'natural'. If someone takes on a pet, they should behave responsibly towards it. IMO.
 
May Kasahara said:
Why is it 'certainly not' the right thing for the cat then? As I stated above: an unneutered tom wanders further, fights more and makes lots more baby cats. Wandering more = higher chance of being run over/trapped/meeting with some other fate. Fighting more = higher chance of contracting FIV and/or passing it on to other poor cats, not to mention pustulent abscesses which may go untreated depending on when the unneutered tom decides to come home (this is assuming you can get him in the cat box to take to the vet - unneutered toms are a lot less pliable and less likely to enjoy a touchy-feely relationship with their humans). Making lots more baby cats = lots more homeless kittens starving to death or growing up to perpetuate the cycle of fighting, fucking and spreading disease. Call me old-fashioned but I don't see that as being particularly beneficial to the cat population in general or the unneutered tom in question.

As is often stated on these boards, a lot of undesirable states are 'natural'. If someone takes on a pet, they should behave responsibly towards it. IMO.

Hear hear. *applauds*
 
May Kasahara said:
Why is it 'certainly not' the right thing for the cat then? As I stated above: an unneutered tom wanders further, fights more and makes lots more baby cats. Wandering more = higher chance of being run over/trapped/meeting with some other fate. Fighting more = higher chance of contracting FIV and/or passing it on to other poor cats, not to mention pustulent abscesses which may go untreated depending on when the unneutered tom decides to come home (this is assuming you can get him in the cat box to take to the vet - unneutered toms are a lot less pliable and less likely to enjoy a touchy-feely relationship with their humans). Making lots more baby cats = lots more homeless kittens starving to death or growing up to perpetuate the cycle of fighting, fucking and spreading disease. Call me old-fashioned but I don't see that as being particularly beneficial to the cat population in general or the unneutered tom in question.

As is often stated on these boards, a lot of undesirable states are 'natural'. If someone takes on a pet, they should behave responsibly towards it. IMO.

Well, we're just going to have to disagree on this one, I think neutering benefits mainly people, and taking away a cat's right to reproduce is not my idea of a caring thing to do.

I looked after cats that weren't neutered all through my childhood and they were quite healthy. There is an exaggeration as to what happens when you don't 'do' them because it's so much more convenient for people to not have to deal with cat's natural behaviour, especially in cities.

'homeless kittens starving to death' LOL cats can fend for themselves!!!

as for tom cats being less 'pliable' when they're not neutered, well, tough shit, that's how they are! Cats aren't on this planet for our pleasure and enjoyment you know, they have a right to a free life.
 
Chairman Meow said:
To be serious, you really should have the cat snipped and stop projecting. :) It really is the kindest thing.

Agreed, you've gotta have him snipped. Leaving him a tom is just irresponsible.
 
Iemanja said:
Well, we're just going to have to disagree on this one, I think neutering benefits mainly people, and taking away a cat's right to reproduce is not my idea of a caring thing to do.

I looked after cats that weren't neutered all through my childhood and they were quite healthy. There is an exaggeration as to what happens when you don't 'do' them because it's so much more convenient for people to not have to deal with cat's natural behaviour.

'homeless kittens starving to death' LOL cats can fend for themselves!!!

as for tom cats being less 'pliable' when they're not neutered, well, tough shit, that's how they are! Cats aren't on this planet for our pleasure and enjoyment you know, they have a right to a free life.

The cat will be perfectly happy without his balls. You could argue that it'd be happier.
 
ChrisFilter said:
The cat will be perfectly happy without his balls. You could argue that it'd be happier.
George Melly on losing his libido:

"It's wonderful. It's like being unshackled from a maniac."

RIP, George :)
 
ChrisFilter said:
The cat will be perfectly happy without his balls. You could argue that it'd be happier.

Would you be happier without your balls? If they were taken from you without your permission? :p
 
Iemanja said:
Well, we're just going to have to disagree on this one, I think neutering benefits mainly people, and taking away a cat's right to reproduce is not my idea of a caring thing to do.

I looked after cats that weren't neutered all through my childhood and they were quite healthy. There is an exaggeration as to what happens when you don't 'do' them because it's so much more convenient for people to not have to deal with cat's natural behaviour, especially in cities.

'homeless kittens starving to death' LOL cats can fend for themselves!!!

as for tom cats being less 'pliable' when they're not neutered, well, tough shit, that's how they are! Cats aren't on this planet for our pleasure and enjoyment you know, they have a right to a free life.

Hmmmm. Well, since cats can fend for themselves, why bother to feed your pet cat, that you have taken into your home, at all? If it breaks its leg, why bother taking it to the vet? They can look after themselves, right? It's natural for them to live a free life.

http://www.cats.org.uk/catcare/key_cat_care_neutering.asp

http://www.catchat.org/kittens.html

http://www.catchat.org/neuter.html

http://www.rspca.org.uk/servlet/Sat...=CatsPetCare&marker=1&articleId=1154077765171

http://www.rspca.org.uk/servlet/Sat...=CatsPetCare&marker=1&articleId=1154077765255

http://www.millhousevets.co.uk/faq/catne.htm

http://www.ivet.co.uk/neutering-your-cat.html

:)
 
ChrisFilter said:
The cat will be perfectly happy without his balls. You could argue that it'd be happier.

But I would know I had physically changed the cat in order to make it docile.

I would have reluctantly had a female done, because I don't want the hassle of kittens.

But even if there is one undoctored male in the neighbourhood, we would have pregnant cats everywhere - which says to me one thing: female cat owners have a responsibility to neuter their cats if they don't want kittens.

The fighting and the roaming don't bother me, really. Cats should fight, imo, and they should be territorial. And if he gets run over by a car, that's God's way of saying he isn't very good at dodging cars. C'est la vie, I don't expect him to last forever, or even as long as possible. As long as his little life is wicked, I don't mind how long he lives, tbh.

I think there's a fair bit of propaganda spoken from animal welfare agencies about this issue, who quite rightly don't want an epidemic of cats taking over the country. I think animal sexuality is as important to them as it is to us - a way of communicating, or staking out territory, of bonding with other cats, of not bonding with other cats...Why would I take an animal and stop it's development unless it was of grave importance? I don't see roaming and fighting or the off unwanted litter as being of grave importance...

He's getting microchipped and latest boosters next week. But I don't think he'll be losing his cathood.

Neutered males, as I understand it, don't go on to grow the secondary masculine characteristics of boy cats - they don't thicken out on the face or haunches, they don't get the same musculature. It essentially condemns them to a prolonged and unnatural adolescence. I find this very unsettling, and I don't think I have the right to change an animal in that way unless it's for a direct benefit to the cat. The only benefit's that are being explained here are for the owners, it seems to me. Cats roam, they fight, they tell you to fuck off, and they don't roll over and play stupid like dogs do.

That's why I like cats.

If he starts spraying or bringing home prostitutes, then I will have to reconsider. But for now, both his Other Daddy and I are not minded to interfere.

My mate has a cat called Smokey, an undoctored male. I was gobsmacked when she said he was undoctored, because all our cats were always done whether boy or girl.

I asked: Doesn't he spray everywhere?

She said: 'Not once, never. I'd kill him and he knows it.'

'What about roaming around...'

'Oh yeah, he does that, five or six days at a time. And if he doesn't come home, well, lots of cats don't. There's no guarantee they'll suddenly know how to cross a road once they have their operation, is there?'

And Smokey is a lovely, strokable, enormous great cat, who has a great life. And there have been no side effects, save perhaps for these thousands of invisible kittens that people are talking about - and if those female cats had been neutered their owners wouldn't have that problem. If indeed, it is a problem. I don't see a shortage of people who want cats, I see a shortage of people who don't home kittens properly. I wouldn't be able to home kittens properly - that's why if Cookie had been a girl, she would have been doctored.
 
May Kasahara said:
Hmmmm. Well, since cats can fend for themselves, why bother to feed your pet cat, that you have taken into your home, at all? If it breaks its leg, why bother taking it to the vet? They can look after themselves, right? It's natural for them to live a free life.

Because people and cats enjoy each other's company?
 
Seems like a lot of overly romantic bollocks to me, but good luck to you.

As for the size thing, my cat, Mack, at my parents house is absolutely huge. He weighs nearly 2 stone. He scares the fuck out of most small dogs, including, memorably, a local pit bull a few years back. He is the king of their small town, and, predictably, was neutered at 6 months old.

In fact, I don't know any neutered toms that live this weird half life you suppose they must.

Also find this 'one rule for males, one rule for females' thing a bit suspect.
 
ChrisFilter said:
Also find this 'one rule for males, one rule for females' thing a bit suspect.

It's called biology!:D

I don't think neutered cats live a half-life - but can they be said to live a full life, without a sex life??
 
Iemanja said:
Because people and cats enjoy each other's company?

Which is why I got both my cats neutered. I want them to enjoy as long, happy, healthy and stress-free a life as possible, preferably with me.

And yes, I think that putting the responsibility of contraception entirely on the owners of female cats simply demonstrates a selfish attitude. Thousands of unwanted kittens are okay, as long as they're not in your back yard eh?

Here's hoping Cookie doesn't contract FIV, for his own sake and those of the other neighbourhood cats he might then go on to infect.
 
May Kasahara said:
And yes, I think that putting the responsibility of contraception entirely on the owners of female cats simply demonstrates a selfish attitude. Thousands of unwanted kittens are okay, as long as they're not in your back yard eh?

oh dear, where exactly did I say that?

Also, this 'here's hoping cookie doesn't contract FIV' business is quite nasty. So if he did contract it, would you be coming back here to say 'I told you so'?

A lot of people here are totally brainwashed regarding neutering cats and cat's natural behaviour and it seems no one is prepared to accept that there is an alternative. Most people here haven't even had first hand experience of animals that haven't been neutered and are only repeating what they have heard over and over again, doesn't mean it's necessarily the truth.

Anyway, if you lot think that it's ok to mutilate animals just so they fit within your living standards, then I haven't got much chance of convincing you otherwise have I? Just in the same way there's no way I'll ever accept it's the right thing to do.
 
My cat has FIV due to not being neutered (by his previous owners), and as a result can no longer mix with other cats and is very vulnerable to infection. As it is, he's quite happy with us being an indoor cat, but it's still sad that he can't go out roaming and chatting with other cats.

I think you're risking him contracting FIV and I don't think that risk is worth the romaticised idea of a big-balls Tom cat you seem to have.
 
p.s. just for the record, I'm also against doing it to female cats, I think they're entitled to at least one litter before being neutured.

How cruel to deny them the chance to have a least one litter!
 
I've never seen castration as a valid birth control in humans, it's hard for me to see it as valid in cats, unless you don't want kittens. And that's not an issue for male cat owners, except in the broadest communal sense. I respect that communal sense, but I don't think it's enough to counteract my intuitive feeling that castrating a young male animal is a conveniency too far in our relationship with animals.

I wouldn't like anyone to do it to me, even if it made me 100% safe from sexual disease, or from the ''madness'' of sexuality. Short happy life, wasn't that how the saying went?

There is something inherently unfair about the female responsibility for contraception, and despite recent state efforts to legally tie in fathers, I think for most people it remains a biological truism.

It is selfish of me to think of my cat and my scruples before the wider community, I agree. But my first priority is to Cookie, and I don't think it's misguided or wrong to believe that part of that priority is allowing him as a cat to be a cat. And have everything that catism promises.

I wouldn't rule out the op, later on if I think he needs it. But before he's fully grown? It just doesn't seem fair.
 
Iemanja said:
p.s. just for the record, I'm also against doing it to female cats, I think they're entitled to at least one litter before being neutured.

How cruel to deny them the chance to have a least one litter!

In an ideal world, I would allow my female cat to have at least one litter. That's what we planned with the last one. I don't think it's up to me to deny them being a mum if that's what nature says. Call me crazy!!

:D
 
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