My Boyfriend The Sex Tourist

[Fuchs66]

Hmmmm didn't see it will wait and see if its getting shown over here. Sex for sale is as has already been stated nothing new and is far from being a black or white case (as is so much more in this world).
I live in Germany where there is a fairly relaxed view to prostitution I am also in a stable relationship so personally feel no need to buy sex. However I feel the "disgusted", mainly female, reactions are based to at least some degree on the outward appearances of the clients (although just as a reminder I have not seen the programme so cant comment directly on what was shown). I am of the opinion that a sex life is important for an individual but in the society we live in where outward appearances play such a large role it is difficult for some to live out this part of their life without paying for a sexual "service". If the deal is mutually beneficial I see no real problem.

 

[dolly's gal]

perhaps "disgusting" is the wrong word, but i certainly felt sad that they [the men and the women] didn't seem to have other options. to me the documentary was a sad indictment of desperation, and in itself showed nothing new. it was quite clearly gratuitous however, and certainly wanted to instil some kind of “anti-men” reaction in its audience

 

[trashpony]

Hmmmm didn't see it will wait and see if its getting shown over here. Sex for sale is as has already been stated nothing new and is far from being a black or white case (as is so much more in this world).
I live in Germany where there is a fairly relaxed view to prostitution I am also in a stable relationship so personally feel no need to buy sex. However I feel the "disgusted", mainly female, reactions are based to at least some degree on the outward appearances of the clients (although just as a reminder I have not seen the programme so cant comment directly on what was shown). I am of the opinion that a sex life is important for an individual but in the society we live in where outward appearances play such a large role it is difficult for some to live out this part of their life without paying for a sexual "service". If the deal is mutually beneficial I see no real problem.

I have an issue with women from third world countries being exploited. I'd find it profoundly depressing if only women give a shit about that.

 

[Meltingpot]

Hmmmm didn't see it will wait and see if its getting shown over here. Sex for sale is as has already been stated nothing new and is far from being a black or white case (as is so much more in this world).
I live in Germany where there is a fairly relaxed view to prostitution I am also in a stable relationship so personally feel no need to buy sex. However I feel the "disgusted", mainly female, reactions are based to at least some degree on the outward appearances of the clients (although just as a reminder I have not seen the programme so cant comment directly on what was shown). I am of the opinion that a sex life is important for an individual but in the society we live in where outward appearances play such a large role it is difficult for some to live out this part of their life without paying for a sexual "service". If the deal is mutually beneficial I see no real problem.

The "problem" is that sex isn't just "another commodity"; it involves sharing the most intimate parts of oneself with someone else. That's why so many people (especially women) are appalled by any form of prostitution (though trashpony I take your point about the OP).

 

[goldenecitrone]

If Hugo Chavez is serious about establishing a socialist, unexploitative society he needs to sit up and sort this kind of shit out ASAP.

Unfortunately prostitution was rife under communism, too. It's not caused by the system. It's caused by humanity.

 

[Fuchs66]

I have an issue with women from third world countries being exploited. I'd find it profoundly depressing if only women give a shit about that.

I said if it was a mutually beneficial arrangement, I have problems with any person whether male, female from 1st, 2nd or 3rd world countries being exploited. I am not however of the opinion that all sex workers are exploited. I feel a lot of this "disgust" is as I said caused by an empathetic reaction along the lines of "yuck look at that fat/ugly/spotty (insert description of choice) bloke I just couldn't have sex with him therefore she must be being forced to do the same". Sorry but if we didn't live in such an uptight, judgemental society maybe just maybe sex tourism would die a natural death.

 

[dolly's gal]

I have an issue with women from third world countries being exploited. I'd find it profoundly depressing if only women give a shit about that.

yes, actually it is about more than men buying sex. the issues of wealth, control, domination make it about much more than a straightforward transaction

 

[Fuchs66]

The "problem" is that sex isn't just "another commodity"; it involves sharing the most intimate parts of oneself with someone else. That's why so many people (especially women) are appalled by any form of prostitution (though trashpony I take your point about the OP).

but it is and always has been and is as much about empowering women as it is about exploiting them. Sex only with love is a relatively new concept even here in the west.

 

[purves grundy]

I have an issue with women from third world countries being exploited. I'd find it profoundly depressing if only women give a shit about that.

Me too. Although any exploitation anywhere is nasty, women in poor countries are more vulnerable to the worst types of exploitation. But having lived in 'the third world' for many years I've found some of my most cherished principles dashed on the rocks of everyday reality. You start to think about what works, pragmatic solutions, which means small, incremental progress. The wages and working conditions of those women last night would be a dream for the vast majority of prostitutes in the third world, most of whom serve local customers.

 

[London_Calling]

and in itself showed nothing new. it was quite clearly gratuitous however, and certainly wanted to instil some kind of “anti-men” reaction in its audience

There ya go, tv product is of course designed to make a profit for the makers. If it's a 'documentary' the makers are usually trying to climb the ladder of success by delivering something 'fresh' and which people will talk about.

 

[London_Calling]

yes, actually it is about more than men buying sex. the issues of wealth, control, domination make it about much more than a straightforward transaction

Too many cliches.

What you know about men is not a lot.

 

[poster342002]

Unfortunately prostitution was rife under communism, too. It's not caused by the system. It's caused by humanity.

I'm not sure I agree with that (although I've no doubt it's gone on under many regimes calling themselves "communist").

Prostitution (especially "pimped" prostitution) is, imo, the ultimate in capitalist exploitation of human beings. If Chavez is serious about wanting to improve the lot of the most oppressed and most exploited in his country, he should launch a national initiative to sort this type of shit out and assist it's workers into a viable alternative.

 

[trashpony]

Me too. Although any exploitation anywhere is nasty, women in poor countries are more vulnerable to the worst types of exploitation. But having lived in 'the third world' for many years I've found some of my most cherished principles dashed on the rocks of everyday reality. You start to think about what works, pragmatic solutions, which means small, incremental progress. The wages and working conditions of those women last night would be a dream for the vast majority of prostitutes in the third world, most of whom serve local customers.

Where is the progress in it? We can put pressure on our suppliers of clothing and other goods to bring up the conditions for their workers so that gradually hopefully sweat shops will become a thing of the past.

Local exploitation we can do less about but I think it is incumbent on all of us to decry sex tourism. There is still a fallacious attitude that sex tourism responds to some 'need' in men for a shag which supports this kind of exploitation. I don't see it as a gender issue, it's one of human rights.

 

[dolly's gal]

Too many cliches.

What you know about men is not a lot.

what the fuck are you talking about?

i suggest that most of the men using these girls were western and, as such, are generally in a much better place than the third-world prostitutes they were sleeping with. my point is that this makes it different to a "straightforward" sex-transaction that might occur between a man and a woman in, say, Germany (this being an example cited earlier in the thread).

also, i never claimed to know "a lot" about men!

 

[Fuchs66]

There is still a fallacious attitude that sex tourism responds to some 'need' in men for a shag which supports this kind of exploitation. I don't see it as a gender issue, it's one of human rights.

So you disagree with my point that it is essential for the majority of people to have a sex life?

 

[Meltingpot]

Where is the progress in it? We can put pressure on our suppliers of clothing and other goods to bring up the conditions for their workers so that gradually hopefully sweat shops will become a thing of the past.

Local exploitation we can do less about but I think it is incumbent on all of us to decry sex tourism. There is still a fallacious attitude that sex tourism responds to some 'need' in men for a shag which supports this kind of exploitation. I don't see it as a gender issue, it's one of human rights.

It's not just men. Apparently women are going on "sex holidays" too to places like the Gambia, I saw it in the Guardian a little while back. I think the ethics are the same as when men do it.

 

[Meltingpot]

So you disagree with my point that it is essential for the majority of people to have a sex life?

OK, so what's going to happen to me if I don't get laid within the next, say, 3 months? I couldn't last more than a week without water or a month without food.

 

[Fuchs66]

i suggest that most of the men using these girls were western and, as such, are generally in a much better place than the third-world prostitutes they were sleeping with. my point is that this makes it different to a "straightforward" sex-transaction that might occur between a man and a woman in, say, Germany (this being an example cited earlier in the thread).

also, i never claimed to know "a lot" about men!

I dont know, I think the comparison to Germany stands especially when you compare the relative standard of income for a sex worker in Germany with a sex worker in the 3rd world.

 

[dolly's gal]

I dont know, I think the comparison to Germany stands especially when you compare the relative standard of income for a sex worker in Germany with a sex worker in the 3rd world.

i think that's the point i was making, no?!

 

[London_Calling]

also, i never claimed to know "a lot" about men!

Did I misunderstand you when you shared with us the reasons why men pay for sex:

yes, actually it is about more than men buying sex. the issues of wealth, control, domination make it about much more than a straightforward transaction

Do you mean the women are controlled, etc?

 

[Fuchs66]

OK, so what's going to happen to me if I don't get laid within the next, say, 3 months? I couldn't last more than a week without water or a month without food.

So a sex life isnt essential in your opinion? What about other less measurable factors that have an effect on health, especially mental health, what about human contact at all, if you were well fed but kept in solitary confinment how long could you last 1 year 2, 3....? Life isn't just about recieving the correct diet.

 

[trashpony]

So a sex life isnt essential in your opinion? What about other less measurable factors that have an effect on health, especially mental health, what about human contact at all, if you were well fed but kept in solitary confinment how long could you last 1 year 2, 3....? Life isn't just about recieving the correct diet.

I don't have a sex life. I'd prefer it if I did but I'm not about to die, I'm not on ADs and have a happy and fulfilling life actually.

 

[Fuchs66]

i think that's the point i was making, no?!

No I mean relative to non-sex workers in their own country, a German girl may make more in absolute terms but compared to the national average she will be fairly low paid. A 3rd world girl will normally be earning a fairly good living wage, certainly more than in a sweat shop.

 

[purves grundy]

Where is the progress in it? We can put pressure on our suppliers of clothing and other goods to bring up the conditions for their workers so that gradually hopefully sweat shops will become a thing of the past.

Local exploitation we can do less about but I think it is incumbent on all of us to decry sex tourism. There is still a fallacious attitude that sex tourism responds to some 'need' in men for a shag which supports this kind of exploitation. I don't see it as a gender issue, it's one of human rights.

I agree that this is an issue best looked at through the lens of human rights. But this would mean ensuring that the women are not coerced into work - they weren't, adequate wages and working conditions - definitely present, etc. You could also argue that human rights can be used to address the structural economic issues which make prostitution the most viable option for women.

What human rights won't tell you is that it's worse for men to travel from one part of the world to another to have sex at a lower price, compared to a local crossing the street to have sex at the local price. I don't see how you could draw that conclusion.

 

[Fuchs66]

I don't have a sex life. I'd prefer it if I did but I'm not about to die, I'm not on ADs and have a happy and fulfilling life actually.

but you'd prefer it if you did, how long has it been so far and how long would you go on, dont forget either whether we like it or not men and women have totally different attitudes to sex.

 

[dolly's gal]

No I mean relative to non-sex workers in their own country, a German girl may make more in absolute terms but compared to the national average she will be fairly low paid. A 3rd world girl will normally be earning a fairly good living wage, certainly more than in a sweat shop.

hm but i'm talking about the relative wages of the girl v the bloke. that's what makes it exploitative, or at least more so than it usually is!

 

[goldenecitrone]

It's noty just men. Apparently women are going on "sex holidays" too to places like the Gambia, I saw it in the Guardian a little while back. I think the ethics are the same as when men do it.

When I was in Egypt there were quite a lot of middle-aged western women hooking up with young Egyptian boys. It was interesting to hear the boys lavishing out the compliments and the women deluding themselves that they were still young and gorgeous. I guess that's a form of equality. Not a particularly pleasant one though.

 

[Fuchs66]

hm but i'm talking about the relative wages of the girl v the bloke. that's what makes it exploitative, or at least more so than it usually is!

I dont see the point there its then no more exploitive than being employed as it's usually the case that the employer earns more IME

Then again we are all whores aren't we

 

[Louloubelle]

Where were the women "abused"...? They were all working their willingly. And at least one of them turned done the client....

The one who turned down the client was punished by being sacked, from the look of things without her money too.

The women who complained that the customer had warts and was basically ignored and told to get on with it was abused.

As that woman correctly pointed out, condoms do not offer full protection from warts as they only cover most of the penis and not the entire genital area. In addition to that, warts are rough and can cause condoms to break with all the associated health risks.

For that woman to have been told to go back to see a customer who had warts to the extent that his penis "looked like a corn on the cob" (there's an image I'd like to not have to think about) was incredibly abusive and showed how little the owners of that establishment cared for both their girls and their customers.

If you look at their site's FAQ section it tells customers not to just assume that all girls will have unprotected sex, anal sex etc. Implying that some of them do.

You should read the FAQ it really is something.

For example, it says that all the girls are tested for STIs when they start working and get a little certificate to prove it that the customers can see if they want to. Great eh? A certificate stating that you don't have any STIs is a lot of use when you're having to have possibly unprotected sex with several different men a week, including men who the owners of the place know have STIs that transmissible even with condom use.

Up to you, but probably your "anger" would be better directed towards those who think fat people, ugly or undesirable are fundamentally disgusting...

If the fat man had been friendly and respectful like the Canadian and not demanding, selfish and nasty then I doubt that the women wouldn't have been remotely bothered by how he looked.

eta

and another thing
what does it say about a man that he would go on a sex tourism holiday with visible genital warts all over his penis? why would he not have got some treatment before his holiday?

 

[purves grundy]

When I was in Egypt there were quite a lot of middle-aged western women hooking up with young Egyptian boys. It was interesting to hear the boys lavishing out the compliments and the women deluding themselves that they were still young and gorgeous. I guess that's a form of equality. Not a particularly pleasant one though.

Plenty of western women on hols in Thailand and Indonesia often acquire a local bf for the duration of the trip. The dynamics of the two situations we're talking about here are quite different though, imo.