That's what I was going to say 
Musical "Keys"
- Thread starter Spymaster
- Start date
*Miss*Sparkle*
please, call me Sparkle
A key is like shorthand for a piece of music.
For example, the key of C Major contains no sharp or flat notes (so would have the notes C D E F G A B C in it). The key of D major has F# and C# (so would have D E F# G A B C# D in it). If a piece of music was written in D Major, the musician would know to play every F and C as a sharp note. At the beginning of the musical score the key would be shown, and then all the F's and C's would not have # signs next to it.
The same thing goes for chords. A D chord in C Major would contain no sharp notes (D, F, A iirc), but a D chord in D Major would be D, F# A.
*Hopes she's remembered her music theory lessons from school correctly*
For example, the key of C Major contains no sharp or flat notes (so would have the notes C D E F G A B C in it). The key of D major has F# and C# (so would have D E F# G A B C# D in it). If a piece of music was written in D Major, the musician would know to play every F and C as a sharp note. At the beginning of the musical score the key would be shown, and then all the F's and C's would not have # signs next to it.
The same thing goes for chords. A D chord in C Major would contain no sharp notes (D, F, A iirc), but a D chord in D Major would be D, F# A.
*Hopes she's remembered her music theory lessons from school correctly*
Sorry, that was the best I could do!
FWIW, I thought mine was a bit better than Wikipedia! Maybe I flatter myself.
It's just about consonance and dissonance, really - how do you identify groups of notes that will sound right together - not just vertically in the sense that C,G and E sounds better than the chord you get with your forehead, but also horizontally in the sense that one set of notes seems to follow on from another, rather than just being randomly juxtaposed to it. Basically all this stuff is just an abstract way of explaining which notes and chord 'go together', and which ones don't.
It's also true that the 'C-Major scale' implies a restriction to a particular note-set, but it's a mistake to assume that that's what key is 'about', because if you look at any whole piece in C Major or whatever you will find it contains f sharps and all sorts of notes that aren't supposed to be there.
FWIW, I thought mine was a bit better than Wikipedia! Maybe I flatter myself.
It's just about consonance and dissonance, really - how do you identify groups of notes that will sound right together - not just vertically in the sense that C,G and E sounds better than the chord you get with your forehead, but also horizontally in the sense that one set of notes seems to follow on from another, rather than just being randomly juxtaposed to it. Basically all this stuff is just an abstract way of explaining which notes and chord 'go together', and which ones don't.
It's also true that the 'C-Major scale' implies a restriction to a particular note-set, but it's a mistake to assume that that's what key is 'about', because if you look at any whole piece in C Major or whatever you will find it contains f sharps and all sorts of notes that aren't supposed to be there.
FabricLiveBaby!
Live Baby Fabric!
This is kinda Hard to explain without a little knowledge of music theory. The Wiki example is actually very good but you need to know about key's first really. so this may be a bit of an esay but hopefully it will clear things up.
Lets take a keyboard:
Most people wrongly think that there are 8 notes in an octave, this is a common misconception and there are actually 12 (see the black notes).
To understand the concept of key you must first understand the concept of tones which are made up of (obviously named) semi tones. So The movement on the keyboard between C and D is a tone. The movement between F# and G# is also a tone between B and C is a Semitone because there is no half note in between.
Once you have tones nailed down you can move on to scales and this is where “keys” start to come in.
A scale is a pattern of notes with a set tone pattern, for example a MAJOR scale will Always have a tonal pattern of (T=Tone, S= Semitone)
T, T, S, T, T, T, S
You can see this pattern emerge easily if your starting note (known in muso terms as the root) is C. Your C major scale would go if you use the major scale tonal pattern:
C, D, E, F, G, A, B
Similarly a Minor scale will ALWAYS have a Tonal pattern of
T, S, T, T, S, T, T
Which would translate in A minor as
A, B, C, D, E, F, G and back to A.
You could work out what a G major or C# minor would be from the tonal patterns shown above.
So the Key of the note is really what note’s you are using in your designated scale. If you are in say the Key of F major You will only use the F, G, A, Bb, C, D, and E.
You can always change the Key by using the same not structure on a differnert note.
Hopefully that was of some help.
It’s a bit of a layman example but it’s kinda difficult to explain without a keyboard and without going off on a HUGE rant so I’m trying to keep it simple (ish).
Lets take a keyboard:
Most people wrongly think that there are 8 notes in an octave, this is a common misconception and there are actually 12 (see the black notes).
To understand the concept of key you must first understand the concept of tones which are made up of (obviously named) semi tones. So The movement on the keyboard between C and D is a tone. The movement between F# and G# is also a tone between B and C is a Semitone because there is no half note in between.
Once you have tones nailed down you can move on to scales and this is where “keys” start to come in.
A scale is a pattern of notes with a set tone pattern, for example a MAJOR scale will Always have a tonal pattern of (T=Tone, S= Semitone)
T, T, S, T, T, T, S
You can see this pattern emerge easily if your starting note (known in muso terms as the root) is C. Your C major scale would go if you use the major scale tonal pattern:
C, D, E, F, G, A, B
Similarly a Minor scale will ALWAYS have a Tonal pattern of
T, S, T, T, S, T, T
Which would translate in A minor as
A, B, C, D, E, F, G and back to A.
You could work out what a G major or C# minor would be from the tonal patterns shown above.
So the Key of the note is really what note’s you are using in your designated scale. If you are in say the Key of F major You will only use the F, G, A, Bb, C, D, and E.
You can always change the Key by using the same not structure on a differnert note.
Hopefully that was of some help.
It’s a bit of a layman example but it’s kinda difficult to explain without a keyboard and without going off on a HUGE rant so I’m trying to keep it simple (ish).
subversplat
writer of wrongs
How come some instruments are in keys then? Surely instuments play all notes? Why do you need to transpose one instrument's music for another?
FabricLiveBaby!
Live Baby Fabric!
Spymaster said:
That is EXACTLY right
Kanda
Diving wanker
If you're thinking about keys and Harmonic Mixing (with Decks), some resources:
http://www.djprince.no/
http://www.harmonic-mixing.com/index.mv
http://www.djprince.no/
http://www.harmonic-mixing.com/index.mv
Spymaster said:
Here's my attempt:
A 'normal' western scale is a set of notes that have a certain 'ratio' or steps between a note and an octave higher (the same note, just twice as high):
The progression is:
Tone - Tone - Semitone - Tone - Tone - Tone - Semitone
At school we often learn to sing "do ray me far so lar tea do" (ie a major scale).
Keys are simple this scale starting on different notes. Each scale that starts on a different note has a different name, and each one has a slightly different set of notes in it.
The reason most western music is written in a certain key is so that the notes used don't clash with each other. It is technically possible to write music not using a set key and without using a key signature, but it would be more work to write it and read it, and ignoring harmonics can make music sound really dischordant and a total jarring racket.
LOL, it's getting more complicated all the time.
It's helpful to realize that you're always talking about two things:
Mode - the horizontal aspect - which notes can I include in my melody without it wandering around aimlessly, and so that people can sing it in tune without doing themselves an injury? This started out with the greeks, who gave us all those wierd mode-names - dorian, myxilydian etc, that describe all of the patterns of tones and semitones possible before you get back to the same note an octave up or down
Chord - the vertical aspect - which tones can be played together and what is the effect in terms of the consonance and stability of the chord - does it sounds like a point of rest or a chord that wants to go somewhere?
Key exists in both of these aspects, which is why it's a little hard to pin down.
It's helpful to realize that you're always talking about two things:
Mode - the horizontal aspect - which notes can I include in my melody without it wandering around aimlessly, and so that people can sing it in tune without doing themselves an injury? This started out with the greeks, who gave us all those wierd mode-names - dorian, myxilydian etc, that describe all of the patterns of tones and semitones possible before you get back to the same note an octave up or down
Chord - the vertical aspect - which tones can be played together and what is the effect in terms of the consonance and stability of the chord - does it sounds like a point of rest or a chord that wants to go somewhere?
Key exists in both of these aspects, which is why it's a little hard to pin down.
FabricLiveBaby!
Live Baby Fabric!
subversplat said:
It's to do with the way the instrument's are formed I think. But I'm not sure it's probably a hang up from ages ago.
It's a question of notation. The thing that looks like a C natural on a b-flat clarinet part (i.e. the printed score) sounds (not unsurprisingly) like a b-flat. So if the rest of the orchestra is playing in C major, the b-flat clarinet part looks like it's in D major, but the actual sounds end up in the same key.
And yeah, it's a weird hangover from ages ago when there were more clefs, and movable clefs and stuff.
And yeah, it's a weird hangover from ages ago when there were more clefs, and movable clefs and stuff.
FabricLiveBaby!
Live Baby Fabric!
yeah, I didn't want to write that cos it makes thisngs REALLLLY complicated
It's annoying that there's not a simpler way to explain it all. 
I do really think it's made easier conceptually by thinking of key as an aspect of chords - i.e. of harmony, rather than just the restricted 'set of notes' that you happen to use in a particular piece. The key is the tonal centre of the work, and a piece could be written with no key signature and just accidentals (sharps and flats written right next to the notes they apply to) and it would still be in D major or whatever by virtue of the pattern of all of its movements from one chord to another.
The idea of cadence is very important to key - maybe the Wiki article on that is a bit better than the key one (which is well crap).
I do really think it's made easier conceptually by thinking of key as an aspect of chords - i.e. of harmony, rather than just the restricted 'set of notes' that you happen to use in a particular piece. The key is the tonal centre of the work, and a piece could be written with no key signature and just accidentals (sharps and flats written right next to the notes they apply to) and it would still be in D major or whatever by virtue of the pattern of all of its movements from one chord to another.
The idea of cadence is very important to key - maybe the Wiki article on that is a bit better than the key one (which is well crap).
subversplat said:
Its to do with two things, lay out and pitch.
For instance, on a keyboard the notes are all nicely laid out in alphabetical order.
On a guitar they are not. So to play a piano piece on a guitar you need to transpose, not just so that you can find the right notes, but that those notes have the right pitch.
As to the OPs original question.
A Key is basically a mathematical equation that tells you what notes/chords will sound nice together. It allows composers and musicians the ability of learned knowledge of what will work and what will not, without the need for trial and error over every aspect of music.
In example, you are writing a piece of music, you have written two chords and you are looking for the third, you could go through every known chord trying to find the right chord, or if your music knowledge is strong enough, you can omit all the chords that don't fit any Key which contains the first two.
Obviously, it works in reverse, that was just an explaination. What you actually do is know all the chords in a certain Key and work with those Chords.
The more experienced musicians change between Keys to mix up their music and keep it original and exciting, there are other mathematical equations that make up the interchanging of Keys. There are some that will sound good when you move between them and some that will just not work.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
Fruitloop said:It's annoying that there's not a simpler way to explain it all.
Well I'm kind of glad you said that. I've tried to tackle the subject several times over the tears but have always given up feeling rather stupid.
So it's perfectly possible to listen to a piece for the first time and know in which key it's written by listening to which notes it does or does not contain?
Kanda
Diving wanker
Try here Spymaster: http://www.numbera.com/musictheory/theory/
and here: http://www.djprince.no/2006/mixingtips.asp#How_do_I_find_the_key
and here: http://www.djprince.no/2006/mixingtips.asp#How_do_I_find_the_key
FabricLiveBaby!
Live Baby Fabric!
Spymaster said:
If you look to my first post it's kind of explaied there. It's to do with how scales are constructed.
look back up the post
Spymaster said:
Technically, yes, it'll be a chord.
But odds are, it'll sound shit.
If you dump your hand on a piano, being careful to hit only notes which are part of the "palette" which is a particular key, it will sound... less shit.
'Cos those notes in that palette "go together" - in a sad way, a bright way, whatever, but not in an "omigawd - nasty, nasty overtones and beats between them makeitstop" way.
So you play or compose a particular bit of a piece using only the notes from that "palette". Until you get bored with it and move on to a different palette ("change key").
I know sod all about music so I'm the perfect persont to explain. Roughly
FabricLiveBaby!
Live Baby Fabric!
Spymaster said:
it's possible but only if you have perfect pitch. Meaning that you instanly know that that note is a C (which is bloody hard work if you dn't have another not to compare it to)
It's alot easier to think "that's in a minor key" or "that's in a mayor key"
FabricLiveBaby!
Live Baby Fabric!
laptop said:T
I know sod all about music so I'm the perfect persont to explain. Roughly
That's actually abloddy good way of explaining it.
Yep, there's no doubt it's complicated. One of the best ways to understand it is developmentally - like why the innovation of thinking about music in keys was an improvement on what went before ('modes' for the linear 'restricted note sets part of it, and figured bass for the horizontal chord consonace/dissonace bit) - which is namely because the concept of key integrates these two things, making it a more useful but ultimately more confusing way of representing things.Spymaster said:
You can definitely tell the key of something just by listening to it, but I would say that it's the relationship of the chords to each other, and the movement from one chord to the next that really determines the key of a particular piece, but obviously in a certain sense the same thing as asking 'which notes are in it'.
Kanda
Diving wanker
Similar threads
