Discussion in 'music, bands, clubs & festies' started by kakuma, Feb 12, 2006.
it's ok, you can close this thread now i've got the definative answers
Stevie Wonder ~ Songs in the Key of Life. Magical.
Very good to genius is a big leap. I think you've got to have advanced or changed music or left an indelible stamp to qualify.
So...Eddie Van Halen's my choice.
seriously? playing the guitar very very fast = genius?
Prince could play a lot of instruments, self taught? Maybe that's genius, or just a lot of hard work...
A few more self taught peeps here 15 Famous Musicians Who Are Totally Self-Taught
in pop music its very very common for people to be self-taught. IME - Musicians who have had formal training are in the minority. Back in the day (and very much still in fact) things like music class in school was not going to teach you how to play guitar like bo diddley or chuck berry, or piano like jerry lee lewis - (exactly why I never took music at school - despite playing music being my abiding passion since aged 14). Nowadays a lots of kids who want to play electric guitar or drums or whatever go straight to you tube. Or teach themselves how to use cu-base etc
Its interesting that very few artists of note have come from music college - and not one band of any import was formed there. Whereas art school illumini make up a huge proportion of artists from brit rock's "golden age" (including lennon, ray davies, keith richards, jimmy page, eric clapton, pink floyd, pete townshend, the clash, bowie, roxy music, freddie mercury, malcolm mclaren, ian dury)
I learned how to play guitar via the Internet, although I don't see that as 'self taught' though. Someone else is passing on information. Learning many instruments without a teacher or Internet is harder, requires a certain amount of something extra. Especially if it's a child doing the self learning.
well - "self taught" id take to mean - no formal training or lessons. Generally that means playing along to records, getting a tutoring book and/or mates showing you bits and pieces - and figuring sutff out for yourself. Id say learning from the internet is the same as using a guitar tutor book.
The Richard Wright pictured in that article is not the one from Pink Floyd.
Miles Davis went to Julliard but gave up because they were only teaching him classical stuff.
I wonder if anyone pointed it out to author... Pretty bad mistake!
Well there's more too him than that! Great songs, classic albums and (in metal anyway) there's pre-Van Halen and post-Van Halen. Frank Zappa thanked him for 'reinventing' the guitar.
This. Does 'virtuoso' equal 'genius'? Because some virtuosos (virtuosi?) strike me as wanky self-obsessed weirdos who are all technique and not much else. Keith Jarret, Gary Moore, Joe Bonamassa, Buddy Rich. Now I'll get into a fight with someone who thinks one or more of these people are towering geniuses. I may be wrong about them but I can't get past the flash to the soul.
But i don't think in his case the technique detracts. It adds. I remember hearing Yngwie Malmsteen for the first time and being blown away...for about the first few listens. Then got really bored. I've never felt that with classic Van Halen (Roth era). Still gets played regularly.
I think it's just a thing. For any one person who has a lot of technique there will be people who can't see past it and people who can. You won't find very good players whose every single listener concludes that they are just and no more than that; somebody will regard what they do as genius. There can't be many people universally proclaimed as genei either (Jimi?).
I searched urbs for Joe Bonamassa and there are a couple of people who rate him highly, while I don't get it; there's no point arguing.
You're right about Yngwie. I used to be able to stab a compass, or a penknife, backwards and forwards between my fingers really quickly.
its not that technical skill is anyway a negative thing - its more that mastery of technique is not - IMO - what makes artistic genius - the genius is in the imagination, the vision, the transcendence of the limitations of form (so here you can make an argument for hendrix, or bowie or miles davies). So you need enough technique to allow that to flourish.
In terms of technical skill there a plenty of guitarists with superior technique than hendrix (i.e van halen) - but its the former qualities that make him a genius - not just in how he redefined what an electric guitar could do - but also how he expressed that.
Van Halen mastered and popularised a new technique and has influenced a lot of subsequent quitar players - but i don't get expressiveness and emotion - its more showboating - which is what a lot players (of any instrument) with extraordinary technique end up doing - because you get an instant "wow!" from audiences. But id take Kurt Cobain's solo on "teen spirit" over EVH's shredding any day of the week - see also Joey Santiago's playing with pixies or everything mick ronson did with bowie.
Or Kossof, who could make one note streeeeetch to a melody
I wonder if theres a difference between genius and ingenuity and if its worth defining what it is. Even though I think of certain musicians as geniuses, if we're being pedantically precise Im not sure genius is really the word that best describes the greatest innovators .Or is ingenuity a locked in part of genius? it probably is actually. So maybe it is the right term.
Even though jazz gets mucm more respect now in academic schools the problem with much modern jazz is that it reeks of higher level schooling...conservatoire jazz....its creates its own sound
the same thing happens in english language fiction supposedly....too many smart young writers all go to East Anglia in teh UK or whatever schools in the US and it creates a very particular style and voice.
Not a fan of either really
You will find someone to argue with about who is/was the best/genius guitarist all year, i wouldn’t be surprised if there aren’t already several threads on the subject.
From Robert Johnson to Buckethead.
A never ending and passionate debate no doubt, but we as listeners and consumers will appreciate those sounds that inspire us and touch our very being. That is what music is about. We all have our own icons and agreement will remain elusive.
I would nominate Antonio Vivaldi myself.
maybe genius is the ability to effectively express your ingenuity to an exceptionally high degree?
Yeah that makes sense. Some moments of ingenuity are for want of a better word, crude. Lots of early dance music is madly ingenious, but it might be a bit of a step to call certain artists geniuses. Then again certain people within it are geniuses though. I guess having a track record of continued innovation and excellence is a defining factor. We're all capable of flashes of genius, but to show it year in year out is another thing.
you’re all wrong.
Can a singer who doesn't write their own material be a musical genius?
I would decribe Ella Fitzgerald as a musical genius.
In my lifetime, Radiohead and, er, Damon Albarn (even if I really dislike some of his peak Britpop stuff).
Separate names with a comma.