there are no online business models for newspapers. not one. a few quid through advertising but nowhere near the amount that used to come in through paper editions (rivers of Gold, Murdoch used to call the advertising profits on newspapers). as more users stop buying the print version and reading online, how the hell can newspapers cope? local and regional are really feeling it and closing all over the place. bad for democracy.
Murdoch papers to charge for online viewing,
- Thread starter treelover
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That's why there was a dot-com bust. People thought that being on the Internet made them money... If you want to stay on the Web you need a viable business plan. Selling news isn't, and is been tried umpteen times in the past.
But we have blogs etc now which, while the majority are dire, there is now some gold. I would argue having news and opinion in the hands of rich newspaper owners was even worse for democracy...
Gromit
International Man of Misery
I have to say that I agree. Websites cost money. Big websites cost a lot of money.
So I don't have a problem with it. He wouldn't be the first online newspaper to charge.
Just so long as they don't charge the same as a newspaper as digital media should imo always be cheaper than physical copies of things.
kyser_soze
Hawking's Angry Eyebrow
It's less about the cost of reporting - there are enough green ink types out there who attend every council session etc to cover the physical reporting stuff, it's making it readable and getting a local audience to read stuff about their councils that's the hard part.
Even during the golden era of local press, the bulk of the stories were 'Woman unable to buy custard in town', engagement/wedding/birth/death notices and classified ads - all of which can now be done privately on the web, and classified is now basically google-ised or free on sites like gumtree.
I think the blog model will be the one that 'wins' eventually (subject to another bit of tech coming along), and you'll have local reporting through that
Crispy
The following psytrance is baṉned: All
Especially for local news. Look how well this forum did reporting the House of Bottles thing. It's not comprehensive by any means, but for Brixton matters, u75 is a pretty good news resource.
how would a blog make money? even the ones who get a million hits a week probably still only make a small amount of money. and if there is no money coming in, who is going to report the town week in week out?
the answer, i feel, is for newsquest, trinity et al to finish and small independant newspapers start up. real local newspapers that young and old grow to love. two many share-holders screaming from the top. most local newspapers still either break even or make a small profit, but are being close down all the time.
the answer, i feel, is for newsquest, trinity et al to finish and small independant newspapers start up. real local newspapers that young and old grow to love. two many share-holders screaming from the top. most local newspapers still either break even or make a small profit, but are being close down all the time.
Gromit
International Man of Misery
My blog would have made me money a nice bit of money... but googleads found some excuse not to pay it to me and banned me from their ad programme. Still not happy.
PacificOcean
Unhinged User
Do newspapers actually make that much money from the cover price?
I assumed it was the ads that made the money and the cover price just covered the cost of printing, distribution and newsagents etc.
Surely, a free web newspaper is the way to go. As you can charge for ads just like with the hardcopy?
In fact surely newspapers can charge a premium for web ads?
For example, the Guardian sells about 350,000 copies a day, yet their website gets 22 million unique visitors a day (or a week, something like that anyway - they had the electronic ABCs on their site a while ago).
I assumed it was the ads that made the money and the cover price just covered the cost of printing, distribution and newsagents etc.
Surely, a free web newspaper is the way to go. As you can charge for ads just like with the hardcopy?
In fact surely newspapers can charge a premium for web ads?
For example, the Guardian sells about 350,000 copies a day, yet their website gets 22 million unique visitors a day (or a week, something like that anyway - they had the electronic ABCs on their site a while ago).
kyser_soze
Hawking's Angry Eyebrow
Paid for newspaper circulations have been declining for 3 decades now, with the most pronoucned falls in local press. It hasn't been helped by Trinity/Newsquest, but press is dying a long and shuddering death in most of it's oldest markets. Quite simply not enough people care.
kyser_soze
Hawking's Angry Eyebrow
See the rest of this thread for the problems of simply trying to recreate a traditional newspaper online. Go and have a look at the Guardian's advertising infor section, and discount most of the rates by at least 30%.
There was a thread on this recently, with lots of people saying how terrible it is for local democracy (which lets face it is pretty fucking parlous anyway - average voter turnout in local elections is dire) but no one really thinking about how to get web-based, non-profit community reporting off the ground...
kyser_soze
Hawking's Angry Eyebrow
Something else will take it's place, even if it means a return to town cryers!
AnnO'Neemus
Is so vanilla
I don't think local newspapers do properly hold local councils to account.
Yes, you might get the odd article inspired by some green ink reader's letter about a pothole in the road that hasn't been filled for three months, or some story originating from the council's nuisance neighbour unit about some kids being given an asbo for playing football in the street or some looney belting out Elvis tunes on a loop at maximum volume 24/7 or something.
Generally speaking, though, local papers tip-toe around the local council, because a lot of their advertising revenues come from... the local council, job adverts, official notices and so on. Local papers don't want to uncover council corruption or failures of duty, because they don't want to p!ss off one of their biggest advertisers.
pk said:
What I've been hearing is that corporate cunts like Murdoch are planning to stitch up the internet so that ISP customers have to sign up to "packages" of internet access where various types of website are bundled rather like the various Sky bundles.
So at the most basic level you'd get stuff like the BBC website, Youtube, Yahoo, MSN and so on. But to access Urban75 etc, you'd have to get a special premium package.
That's what cunts like Murdoch are after.
T & P
|-o-| (-o-) |-o-|
Yes. The best free online newspaper will never be substitute for sitting down and reading a real newspaper over a pint. Ever.
Kaka Tim
Half Arsed and Slapdash till I Die
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/
Is anyone seriously suggesting that anyone would pay money for that?
Sure many people would find it moderately diverting skip stuff to skip through- simlar to the paper.
But people will only pay on the internet for stuff they really cant get anywhere else for free - and thats a pretty limited field. I mean images of big titted models, celbrity gossip and crappy photoshop gags aren't exactly in short supply in cybersapce are they?
The Times might have a better chance - but not whilst theres so many free (and far better) alternatives.
I think murdoch has got this way wrong.
Is anyone seriously suggesting that anyone would pay money for that?
Sure many people would find it moderately diverting skip stuff to skip through- simlar to the paper.
But people will only pay on the internet for stuff they really cant get anywhere else for free - and thats a pretty limited field. I mean images of big titted models, celbrity gossip and crappy photoshop gags aren't exactly in short supply in cybersapce are they?
The Times might have a better chance - but not whilst theres so many free (and far better) alternatives.
I think murdoch has got this way wrong.
what i reckon might happen is that it will all go online, and then some bright spark in twenty years time will propose: "you know what - i reckon it would be great if we could get a daily dose of news in a...paper format. we could print them off and sell them in shops. they could have sport section, news section, council matters etc".
No, which is why the likes of Murdoch have been buying up ISPs so that they can eventually foist the Sky "packages" model on people - you pay £x per month to see the basic package, full of the content they want to push to the masses, while you'll have to pay a premium rate to access sites like this one.
kyser_soze
Hawking's Angry Eyebrow
And all you need do is choose an ISP that doesn't do it...not really an issue...
Plus pk's talking shite about a nail in the coffin of newscorp...their 3rd quater results, while taking the same revenue hit from declining TV ad spend, still shows them making 10% margin on operations. Sky in the UK reports similar growth, largely driven by SkyHD...
BTW, greensfish, do you have a link to that Times story?
In case you haven't noticed, multinationals like Tiscali and AOL have been snapping up the smaller ISPs for years. The time when they will try to push this model won't be far off. For example my ISP, Nildram, was snapped up by Pipex, which was then itself bought by Tiscali, all in the space of a few years.
There's more about this here: http://blackouteurope.eu/
Thing is, people like Murdoch are always the first to say 'keep up with the times' and 'on yer bike' and 'adjust to the market'.
Well, never has someone's own ideology come to bite them on the bum like this...
Well, never has someone's own ideology come to bite them on the bum like this...
kyser_soze
Hawking's Angry Eyebrow
I'm well aware of the rapacious nature of the ISP market - Tiscali was recently bought by Carphone Warehouse, but it doesn't alter the fact that media owners, other than virgin, don't own the cable and were the market to go to the package/control model, I strongly suspect it would face strong competition from ISPs offering completely open access...I also think there's market space for both models...
It's easy enough to find news online. IF all papers start doing this, people will just use other sources of news.
If that bundle internet thing goes ahead I think we should have a demo against it. I'm serious. I think the internet is the single most progressive thing to have happened in the last 20 years and fucktards like Turdoch shouldn't be allowed near it.
If that bundle internet thing goes ahead I think we should have a demo against it. I'm serious. I think the internet is the single most progressive thing to have happened in the last 20 years and fucktards like Turdoch shouldn't be allowed near it.
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