Mugged in Lambeth
- Thread starter Bob
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talking to muggers
I've been nearly sort-of-mugged in brixton once and been conned once (and come to think of it, was mugged when I was a tennager on the district line too) neither incident was anywhere near as serious as the ones you've discussed - and were more dealable with because I was lucky, and the mugger was on his own - not a group, which are, as your all saying, a different kettle of fish. Anyway, what I want to say is that thru both situations, I've sort of developed a (foolhardy-ish) policy that in the event of being mugged (touch wood i don't) of talking to the mugger while the incident is taking place, and arguing with them about what they're doing. Without going into it all, in the sort-of-mugging (where I did well and tho the guy threatened me with a nasty long pair of scissors, we discussed and negotiated and finally agreed on him having a croissant) and in the other (where the guy did the stupid 'have you got a pound for 2 fifties' thing and I was in a good mood and took him o face value and was stupid enough to put the money in his hand before he put it in mine, I pursued him down the street shouting that there was enough distrust in the neighbourhood and him arguing that the country was based on pillage (fair point - I said we had to start again from somewhere)) but my point is that in these sort of one-to-one, moderatley less dangerous situations (which may be a hard one to judge - and I'm making no statement as to what Bob/other people ought to have done in past events) I feel that, I (we?) sort of have a duty to acknowledge that we aren't just stereotypes (me white scared middle-classy type and in these instances them scary black mugger types) but humans. This is my first (nervous) posting, and probably sounds like I'm mad, but there we are. I just figure that this sort of crime is made more possible by people seeing each other as images or symbols rather than as people, and if you can humanise the situation, then in a (admittedly tiny) way, you might be helping the problem.
I've been nearly sort-of-mugged in brixton once and been conned once (and come to think of it, was mugged when I was a tennager on the district line too) neither incident was anywhere near as serious as the ones you've discussed - and were more dealable with because I was lucky, and the mugger was on his own - not a group, which are, as your all saying, a different kettle of fish. Anyway, what I want to say is that thru both situations, I've sort of developed a (foolhardy-ish) policy that in the event of being mugged (touch wood i don't) of talking to the mugger while the incident is taking place, and arguing with them about what they're doing. Without going into it all, in the sort-of-mugging (where I did well and tho the guy threatened me with a nasty long pair of scissors, we discussed and negotiated and finally agreed on him having a croissant) and in the other (where the guy did the stupid 'have you got a pound for 2 fifties' thing and I was in a good mood and took him o face value and was stupid enough to put the money in his hand before he put it in mine, I pursued him down the street shouting that there was enough distrust in the neighbourhood and him arguing that the country was based on pillage (fair point - I said we had to start again from somewhere)) but my point is that in these sort of one-to-one, moderatley less dangerous situations (which may be a hard one to judge - and I'm making no statement as to what Bob/other people ought to have done in past events) I feel that, I (we?) sort of have a duty to acknowledge that we aren't just stereotypes (me white scared middle-classy type and in these instances them scary black mugger types) but humans. This is my first (nervous) posting, and probably sounds like I'm mad, but there we are. I just figure that this sort of crime is made more possible by people seeing each other as images or symbols rather than as people, and if you can humanise the situation, then in a (admittedly tiny) way, you might be helping the problem.
talking to muggers
. Welcome to the boards!
Brilliant post
. Welcome to the boards!
Structaural
in Chatsubo
talking to muggers
Hi ben, welcome to the boards.
very much in agreement with you and love those stories.
I've been in about 5 or 6 potential mugging scenarios, all of which were calmed with merely engaging with the fellow and looking him right in the eye. (and sometimes giving him 50p or so). Fronting we used to call it.
Losing the hampshire accent can help as well...
Hi ben, welcome to the boards.
very much in agreement with you and love those stories.
I've been in about 5 or 6 potential mugging scenarios, all of which were calmed with merely engaging with the fellow and looking him right in the eye. (and sometimes giving him 50p or so). Fronting we used to call it.
Losing the hampshire accent can help as well...
"I just figure that this sort of crime is made more possible by people seeing each other as images or symbols rather than as people, and if you can humanise the situation, then in a (admittedly tiny) way, you might be helping the problem."
Welcome Ben, you are absolutely right. What your talking about is empathy. One of the most useful/beneficial human qualities IMHO.
Welcome Ben, you are absolutely right. What your talking about is empathy. One of the most useful/beneficial human qualities IMHO.
Re: talking to muggers
Thanks for welcomes etc - I lost the (wimbledon) accent when I was at school, but annoyingly it's been coming back since I turned around 25, and now tend to sound like dick van dyke or something if i try losing it.
Actually just to add to the conning thing - after pursuing the guy down the street and the two of us engaging in post-colonial discussion etc, one of the weirdest thing I've ever seen happened - a strange druggy guy from under the arches (we were on atlantic rd) came towards us - he was young and in a shellsuit but moving in a weird lollopy sort of way - and threw a plastic bottle - presumably at me, but it nearly hit the other guy - who went 'what you doing throwing bottles at me for?' and then ran away laughing leaving me to the weird gollem-y bloke - who for maximum freak out effect then came up to me and flipped his eyelids inside out - without using his hands! just spontaneously they flipped! and I swear they had strange yellow discs sticking out from within the skin. Anyway, all I could think was it was a bit like in jurrasic park when a small cute dinosaur kind of purrs around the fat guy then suddenly goes hhheeehhh and little fins come out of his neck and he spits venom at him. I said, 'wow' he said 'you a batty man?', i said 'no' and went home.
Thanks for welcomes etc - I lost the (wimbledon) accent when I was at school, but annoyingly it's been coming back since I turned around 25, and now tend to sound like dick van dyke or something if i try losing it.
Actually just to add to the conning thing - after pursuing the guy down the street and the two of us engaging in post-colonial discussion etc, one of the weirdest thing I've ever seen happened - a strange druggy guy from under the arches (we were on atlantic rd) came towards us - he was young and in a shellsuit but moving in a weird lollopy sort of way - and threw a plastic bottle - presumably at me, but it nearly hit the other guy - who went 'what you doing throwing bottles at me for?' and then ran away laughing leaving me to the weird gollem-y bloke - who for maximum freak out effect then came up to me and flipped his eyelids inside out - without using his hands! just spontaneously they flipped! and I swear they had strange yellow discs sticking out from within the skin. Anyway, all I could think was it was a bit like in jurrasic park when a small cute dinosaur kind of purrs around the fat guy then suddenly goes hhheeehhh and little fins come out of his neck and he spits venom at him. I said, 'wow' he said 'you a batty man?', i said 'no' and went home.
Re: Re: talking to muggers
Fuck me! David Icke was right all along
Structaural
in Chatsubo
LOL! all of you.
Wednesdayite
The boy from Sheff
Mugged in Brixton
I got mugged on August bank holiday Monday outside my own house - 5 kids, very very polished operation - me sat at bus stop, they nearly lifted me up. Wallet out of pocket, no violence, over before it started. The police were ok, there straight away, helpful. Nothing they can do though. For the benefit of everyone else, they were about 15-18, 5 black kids, expensive sportswear. Sadly, I don't think that helps very much. It was just north of the Brixton Express, Lorn Road and Brixton Rd junction. Nearly Opposite Esso. Any similar experiences round there? Anyone else with suppressed anxieties, creeping fears of Brixton. I like Brixton a lot... they won't run me out of here... but the third mugging in a year for me now, and I'm getting horrible suppressed violent feelings.
I got mugged on August bank holiday Monday outside my own house - 5 kids, very very polished operation - me sat at bus stop, they nearly lifted me up. Wallet out of pocket, no violence, over before it started. The police were ok, there straight away, helpful. Nothing they can do though. For the benefit of everyone else, they were about 15-18, 5 black kids, expensive sportswear. Sadly, I don't think that helps very much. It was just north of the Brixton Express, Lorn Road and Brixton Rd junction. Nearly Opposite Esso. Any similar experiences round there? Anyone else with suppressed anxieties, creeping fears of Brixton. I like Brixton a lot... they won't run me out of here... but the third mugging in a year for me now, and I'm getting horrible suppressed violent feelings.
I know this is a long shot, but at around 6 a.m. this morning (Saturday) my flatmate, a 22-year-old brunette, was mugged at the junction of Clapham Park Road and Acre Lane. She'd just got off a 137 bus. Jumped by two teenagers, she fought one of them off but the other got her bag.
She's pretty shaken up, but physically okay.
The trouble is that she's just gone back to college to do her A-Levels, and her bag contained all her new text-books. Now she has to scrape together the cash to buy more.
If anyone saw anything, or knows someone who might have been in the area, or happens to have seen a dumped bag in a bin or something containing chemistry, physics and biology text-books...
Any help would really be appreciated.
She's pretty shaken up, but physically okay.
The trouble is that she's just gone back to college to do her A-Levels, and her bag contained all her new text-books. Now she has to scrape together the cash to buy more.
If anyone saw anything, or knows someone who might have been in the area, or happens to have seen a dumped bag in a bin or something containing chemistry, physics and biology text-books...
Any help would really be appreciated.
Three in a year?! Why you?
How long have you been here Wednesday? I reckon some of people who came a couple of years back when all the magazines were saying " move to hip SW9" might now be feeling it's a bit rough for them. People who've been here a long time get used to the sort of waves of incident that occur from time to time. I personally feel very rooted here nowadays. And for anyone reading this who doesn't know Brixton, it's not the Bronx or something. It's a great area, but it is an inner city area with all that entails.
"Creeping fears of Brixton". No, not specifically. But I do fear for more division in society between rich and poor. I think the very smart bars, etc right in poor people's faces and the extreme materialism of our society cause resentment that sometimes spills over into crime. Round where you are there are massive posh houses right on top of a big estate.
Even Donal McIntyre got mugged there.... although he did spend three days with a laptop on a stick like a carrot!
How long have you been here Wednesday? I reckon some of people who came a couple of years back when all the magazines were saying " move to hip SW9" might now be feeling it's a bit rough for them. People who've been here a long time get used to the sort of waves of incident that occur from time to time. I personally feel very rooted here nowadays. And for anyone reading this who doesn't know Brixton, it's not the Bronx or something. It's a great area, but it is an inner city area with all that entails.
"Creeping fears of Brixton". No, not specifically. But I do fear for more division in society between rich and poor. I think the very smart bars, etc right in poor people's faces and the extreme materialism of our society cause resentment that sometimes spills over into crime. Round where you are there are massive posh houses right on top of a big estate.
Even Donal McIntyre got mugged there.... although he did spend three days with a laptop on a stick like a carrot!
Wednesdayite
The boy from Sheff
Yes, three times! Once up Brixton Hill and once on my own doorstep (I was followed back after a night on the piss) I do understand about the contrast between rich and poor, I just never really took it into account before now. Never thought of it that way. I'm not from a middle-class background, I'm from a fairly rough part of Sheffield. So in that sense I never thought of being on one side of an "us and them" situation. I'm aware, however, of this great divide of rich and poor in Brixton, and in the sense that I have a decent, nice public sector job, I suppose I am on the "rich" side of the fence. I'm not a newcomer really either, I live up here now, but I used to live up by the prison and before that a year in Tulse Hill. Seems to have come in a wave recently. Lived in Willesden and Waterloo and Hackney (the rough Clapton end) and the only other time I was mugged was in Soho four years ago. Your head gets into a spin when this kind of thing happens, and perspective goes out the window. I'm sure, if we start giving young black kids round here more opportunities then then the problem will gradually lessen. And I hope so, as it says outside a church on the Hill, "God So Loves Brixton"!!
I wanted to add that I think it is a scandal that many playgrounds and other youth facilities in the inner cities are so under-funded now that they struggle to survive even on volunteer workers running them.
Why the hell can't the government see the massive link between street crime and poor kids having nothing constructive to do?? It's one more piece of the timebomb of social problems and inequity we are storing up.
One more thing. I wanted to say that I feel that when an incident goes off round here now, as opposed to ten years or more ago, it often seems to me that it is more violent and more extreme. I mean years ago for instance guns were hardly used in muggings atall, now they are. Maybe not much, but more. That does worry me. As does the casual attitude to guns and the slaying of so many young men.
Underneath all of this, I feel that our isolating (how many single households are there?), materialist, celeb-obsessed, self-oriented society is failing. It's not promoting empathy. The less empathy we all have for eachother, the more doomed we all are.
Why the hell can't the government see the massive link between street crime and poor kids having nothing constructive to do?? It's one more piece of the timebomb of social problems and inequity we are storing up.
One more thing. I wanted to say that I feel that when an incident goes off round here now, as opposed to ten years or more ago, it often seems to me that it is more violent and more extreme. I mean years ago for instance guns were hardly used in muggings atall, now they are. Maybe not much, but more. That does worry me. As does the casual attitude to guns and the slaying of so many young men.
Underneath all of this, I feel that our isolating (how many single households are there?), materialist, celeb-obsessed, self-oriented society is failing. It's not promoting empathy. The less empathy we all have for eachother, the more doomed we all are.
"I'm sure, if we start giving young black kids round here more opportunities then then the problem will gradually lessen."
Who is "we"? And isn't it more about people having opportunity to do their own thing rather than white people handing something down if that's what you mean? I think that's part of the talking-down-to thing that winds black kids up so much in the first place. And do you think that this is across a black/white divide or something. It's about have's and have-nots or the perception of such. There's plenty of white muggers out there.
Who is "we"? And isn't it more about people having opportunity to do their own thing rather than white people handing something down if that's what you mean? I think that's part of the talking-down-to thing that winds black kids up so much in the first place. And do you think that this is across a black/white divide or something. It's about have's and have-nots or the perception of such. There's plenty of white muggers out there.
This post was supposed to be before the above two but I messed up. I wanted to come back on something Mike said.
I said:
But I do try and communicate on a friendly, respectful level should communication be necessary or desirable.
Then Mike said:
You mean like, "Good evening, you fine set of bracing lads! What was that? You'd like my wallet? Most certainly! My pleasure!
Oh, and thank you for that bash in the eye. What a strong lad!
Ooof! That's a mighty fine pair of trainers, young sir. Thank you for the extreme close up!"
I say now: Shut up Mike! No I mean that I take the attitude that people are alright until they are not. People aren't foreign to me unless they make themselves foreign.
It's delicate with groups of lads because they're all searching for who they are and desperate to be cool and man-like so whatever you do it's often going to be sneered at as uncool. I'd be more likely to joke and connect with adult strangers. But with lads I'd probably just say "alright" or "no worries" or something neutral unless I was feeling bold. If someone did say "gimme your wallet", I might say "you got bad taste in mugging victims cos I'm too poor to bother with" (which is sadly true). Or I might say "I know your fucking mum, shithead".
The point is to let them know you don't take any shit either and make it clear that you are not eyeing people suspiciously or looking down on people. I can see why that makes kids just hanging out doing nothing wrong angry.
And, to be blunt, if it's black boys and they were hassling me I might even say something along the lines of " don't gimme that shit, I'm not just any old stupid white idiot you know.... I'm a special kind of stupid white idiot!" (Plenty of self piss-taking there). I dunno, it all depends on the tone of the exchange, but if you can get someone laughing you've made the connection. And yeah I realise there are some violent teens around who won't see reason like I describe, but (black or white or whatever) they are in a minority. Most kids are just trying to grow up too fast.
I said:
But I do try and communicate on a friendly, respectful level should communication be necessary or desirable.
Then Mike said:
You mean like, "Good evening, you fine set of bracing lads! What was that? You'd like my wallet? Most certainly! My pleasure!
Oh, and thank you for that bash in the eye. What a strong lad!
Ooof! That's a mighty fine pair of trainers, young sir. Thank you for the extreme close up!"
I say now: Shut up Mike! No I mean that I take the attitude that people are alright until they are not. People aren't foreign to me unless they make themselves foreign.
It's delicate with groups of lads because they're all searching for who they are and desperate to be cool and man-like so whatever you do it's often going to be sneered at as uncool. I'd be more likely to joke and connect with adult strangers. But with lads I'd probably just say "alright" or "no worries" or something neutral unless I was feeling bold. If someone did say "gimme your wallet", I might say "you got bad taste in mugging victims cos I'm too poor to bother with" (which is sadly true). Or I might say "I know your fucking mum, shithead".
The point is to let them know you don't take any shit either and make it clear that you are not eyeing people suspiciously or looking down on people. I can see why that makes kids just hanging out doing nothing wrong angry.
And, to be blunt, if it's black boys and they were hassling me I might even say something along the lines of " don't gimme that shit, I'm not just any old stupid white idiot you know.... I'm a special kind of stupid white idiot!" (Plenty of self piss-taking there). I dunno, it all depends on the tone of the exchange, but if you can get someone laughing you've made the connection. And yeah I realise there are some violent teens around who won't see reason like I describe, but (black or white or whatever) they are in a minority. Most kids are just trying to grow up too fast.
That's all well and good. But the time I was mugged by five black kids, if they'd asked me for my phone then I'd have given them my phone. But they had the poor etiquette to open negotiations by breaking my nose(*), and then hitting me over the back of the head with something solid.
They didn't get the phone, nor my wallet, passport, computer or anything else I was carrying. Modern youth is crap.
(*) "Well," said the doctor I'd waited six hours in Casualty to see, "everything that can be broken in a nose is broken in yours. Here's a plaster. Go and see your GP on Monday." The modern NHS is crap as well.
They didn't get the phone, nor my wallet, passport, computer or anything else I was carrying. Modern youth is crap.
(*) "Well," said the doctor I'd waited six hours in Casualty to see, "everything that can be broken in a nose is broken in yours. Here's a plaster. Go and see your GP on Monday." The modern NHS is crap as well.
Wednesdayite
The boy from Sheff
Hatboy -
"Opporunities?" "we"?
Well that was just a comment made without proper thought. But A) I know there are white muggers, I was mugged in Soho by a white man. B) Yes the black kids can do their own thing and will be more successful with each generation. But we do have something to hand over, rather than "hand down" and that's our commitment to rid this rotten society of its inherent racism and prejudices.
"Opporunities?" "we"?
Well that was just a comment made without proper thought. But A) I know there are white muggers, I was mugged in Soho by a white man. B) Yes the black kids can do their own thing and will be more successful with each generation. But we do have something to hand over, rather than "hand down" and that's our commitment to rid this rotten society of its inherent racism and prejudices.
Wednesdayite
The boy from Sheff
Ok, good point hatboy and CK1977. My points have not been well-reasoned. My apologies. It does sound patronising but really what I want is to see an education system that fits and benefits equally every colour and culture. Some, it fails. For example, the general gap in achievement between children of Indian parents and those with Pakistani parents. I don't for a minute think that the fault lies in the Pakistani community. I'm half Asian and White and had experience of racism. I want to see every race have truly equal chances. I do not want to patronise and I look down to no-one.
{note: mistake fixed. You can alter mistakes in your posts Wednesdayite by clicking on "edit" in the bottom right of your post.}
{note: mistake fixed. You can alter mistakes in your posts Wednesdayite by clicking on "edit" in the bottom right of your post.
}chegrimandi
associated with adultery
Originally posted by hatboy
I wanted to add that I think it is a scandal that many playgrounds and other youth facilities in the inner cities are so under-funded now that they struggle to survive even on volunteer workers running them.
Why the hell can't the government see the massive link between street crime and poor kids having nothing constructive to do?? It's one more piece of the timebomb of social problems and inequity we are storing up.
Underneath all of this, I feel that our isolating (how many single households are there?), materialist, celeb-obsessed, self-oriented society is failing. It's not promoting empathy. The less empathy we all have for eachother, the more doomed we all are.
I'd echo all of that with bells on.
I've been mugged twice. Once in Stoke Newington by kids on bikes. Once on the beach by kids with massive machetes in Honduras!
Ok. I agree with you on the above point. Their is a serious lack of trust in the Education system when it comes to "Afro-Caribbean" families. I was actually watching a programme about this a few months back...and RACISM seems to be dripping all over the Education System, the general attitude from the teachers and heads of schools seems to be "These Black Caribbean Kids" are all the same, they are all failiures. The problems lies where their seems to be a huge lack Integrating "Afro-Caribbeans" into School teacher, local authority and Government sector positions.
If you haven't already CK1977, see this:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/static/in_depth/uk/2002/race/work_hard_and_smart.stm
Archbishop Tennison's at the Oval seems like a school that's finally getting it right. Other schools should look and learn from this IMO.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/static/in_depth/uk/2002/race/work_hard_and_smart.stm
Archbishop Tennison's at the Oval seems like a school that's finally getting it right. Other schools should look and learn from this IMO.
isvicthere?
a.k.a. floppybollocks
how dare you?!
I very strongly disagree with this. You capitalise the word "racism" (presumably to highlight its prevalence) then tamely follow up with "seems to be" a problem in the education system. Well, you may have watched a single TV programme, but for the last sixteen years I have taught in three different London boroughs. The casual suggestion, based on your IMO lazy viewing of a TV show, that I and my colleagues do not take this most significant issue seriously, and - even worse - display crude racial stereotypes is profoundly insulting. I think you should withdraw it. But I wouldn't be surprised if you don't.
I very strongly disagree with this. You capitalise the word "racism" (presumably to highlight its prevalence) then tamely follow up with "seems to be" a problem in the education system. Well, you may have watched a single TV programme, but for the last sixteen years I have taught in three different London boroughs. The casual suggestion, based on your IMO lazy viewing of a TV show, that I and my colleagues do not take this most significant issue seriously, and - even worse - display crude racial stereotypes is profoundly insulting. I think you should withdraw it. But I wouldn't be surprised if you don't.
