Mugged again
- Thread starter aurora green
- Start date
Not only is it 'fucking idiotic', it's putting a child's safety at greater risk - what kind of parent would want that?toggle said:
citydreams
on the road again
But who says you need to teach a child to be violent to teach him to be confident?!
I learnt martial arts, and I'd teach it to my kids. But not as a way to get out of trouble but as in a discipline of its own. Getting out of trouble takes brains not braun.
I learnt martial arts, and I'd teach it to my kids. But not as a way to get out of trouble but as in a discipline of its own. Getting out of trouble takes brains not braun.
I'm not sure what you're trying to say. Are you saying that children shouldn't be taught how to use force to defend themselves? If that's what you're saying then I don't really know how to react to that. Surely it's better for a child to know as many ways of getting out of trouble as possible, rather than limiting their knowledge and capabilities.citydreams said:
Do you really think that it's as simple as "Getting out of trouble takes brains not braun."? How do you know this? Have you experienced every single troublesome situation that could possibly happen? What happens if one day they get into a situation where they NEED to use physical violence to defend themselves? Will their brains alone get them out of it then?
citydreams
on the road again
5T3R30TYP3 said:
No.. I'm saying that taking a child to martial art lessons after the fact that he has been attacked is potentially defeatist. Not every child wants to learn to fight.
that's what I mean about a defeatist attitude.
Don't get me wrong. I'm a fighter. I just like idealism. I learnt to fight by fighting.
But this isn't every child is it. This is aurora green's child. If he does happen to want to learn to defend himself, then why shouldn't he? What exactly is defeatist about learning to defend one's self? I think it's 'facing up to reality and preparing one's self for possibilities' rather than 'defeatist'.citydreams said:
citydreams
on the road again
5T3R30TYP3 said:
There's always going to be someone who can puch faster and harder than you. Kickboxing and the like make it almost impossible to back away from a fight because of the stance you use to lunge.
On top of that, let's say you get a punch in. Great, now you're a big man? Rubbish. Now you're an enemy. And you're more likely to get yourself stabbed.
I think the defeatist element is "why should a child learn to fight?" You say 'facing up to reality'. Who's reality? It might never happen again. If, as you say, having more confidence is going to help then there are other ways of gaining confidence than knowing you can potentially throw someone over your shoulder.
You haven't been in many fights have you? Ever been grabbed and put in some sort of hold or headlock by one person, while another kicks and punches you? It's happened to me and if I could have the choice of
a) having the physical ability and knowledge to get out of it, or
b) just staying there, helpless and headlocked, feeling sorry for myself, while getting kicked and punched all over the place, wishing I knew how to get these two people off me
I think a) would be preferable, don't you?
The reality is that these things can and do happen, and the better option is to have the knowlege and ability to choose an appropriate way of getting one's self out of the situation. Whether one ever chooses to use force or not, at least the choice is there if it's needed.
You seem to think that choice is a bad thing and that knowledge of self-defence methods should be avoided.
a) having the physical ability and knowledge to get out of it, or
b) just staying there, helpless and headlocked, feeling sorry for myself, while getting kicked and punched all over the place, wishing I knew how to get these two people off me
I think a) would be preferable, don't you?
The reality is that these things can and do happen, and the better option is to have the knowlege and ability to choose an appropriate way of getting one's self out of the situation. Whether one ever chooses to use force or not, at least the choice is there if it's needed.
You seem to think that choice is a bad thing and that knowledge of self-defence methods should be avoided.
citydreams
on the road again
5T3R30TYP3 said:
A few times.
I fight dirty though. They don't teach you how to do that in class, you just do it.
citydreams
on the road again
5T3R30TYP3 said:
No. Sorry, that's not what I'm trying to say. I think that trying to install confidence in a threatening situation by learning violent forms of martial arts is defeatist. I don't think martial arts is defeatist.
aurora green
Tectonic
Thanks for all your support and concern people.
The last time this happened, I bought him some big climbing boots that gave him some extra height and a huge coat with a hood, to diguise the blazer which I think makes him look small and vunerable, and make him appear more confident on the streets, but he wasn't wearing it yesterday . (He hates wearing a coat to school because they have nowhere to leave it and have to carry them around all day)
I just spoke to my son about perhaps taking some martial arts classes to help him, but he was dead against the idea, saying that they wouldn't of helped and also insistant that his free time is too precious, (he's a stubborn little so and so) He's a bit hostile this morning anyway, so perhaps I'll bring it up again in the future...
He's 15, and if he doesn't want to do something, there's not a lot I can do.
My feelings on this though, having done tai chi myself in the past, are that it wouldn't hurt a bit, just to be able to channel yourself a bit more effectively.
However, I've always preeched non-violence, but that hasn't stopped him getting into the occassional playground scrap.
I wish he had some mates around here he could travel home from school with, but he's the one who travels the furthest to school.
It's my fault really, because instead of sending him to the estate school, I preferred for him to go to a more mixed primary school nearer to Hernehill, so he never really made friends with boys around here.
The last time this happened, I bought him some big climbing boots that gave him some extra height and a huge coat with a hood, to diguise the blazer which I think makes him look small and vunerable, and make him appear more confident on the streets, but he wasn't wearing it yesterday . (He hates wearing a coat to school because they have nowhere to leave it and have to carry them around all day)
I just spoke to my son about perhaps taking some martial arts classes to help him, but he was dead against the idea, saying that they wouldn't of helped and also insistant that his free time is too precious, (he's a stubborn little so and so) He's a bit hostile this morning anyway, so perhaps I'll bring it up again in the future...
He's 15, and if he doesn't want to do something, there's not a lot I can do.
My feelings on this though, having done tai chi myself in the past, are that it wouldn't hurt a bit, just to be able to channel yourself a bit more effectively.
However, I've always preeched non-violence, but that hasn't stopped him getting into the occassional playground scrap.
I wish he had some mates around here he could travel home from school with, but he's the one who travels the furthest to school.
It's my fault really, because instead of sending him to the estate school, I preferred for him to go to a more mixed primary school nearer to Hernehill, so he never really made friends with boys around here.
citydreams
on the road again
aurora green said:
No it's not, really!
aurora green said:
Just seen this! Terrible story
Life's not being kind to you ATM --- maximum sympathies. Really hope it all gets a lot better for you and yours soon!
Anything Stig and I can do etc., but you know that anyway.
citydreams said:
Agreed. Do **NOT** blame yourself AG ....
This will probably attract some bilious responses , but try to get in in perspective.
The shite who do this type of thing lead appalling ,sad, wasted, pitiful & usually short lives. They will probabaly never experience true happiness, love, affection & respect ( in the non street sense of the word ) from those around them.They are unhappy & distressed & probabaly have nothing in their lives to look forward to - no travel, no new experiences, no fulfillment.They will never be comfortble with themselves ( not financially ! )
Your son on the other hand obviously has a caring family & is sensitive enought to work out what is going on . In a few years he will be older & better informed to take a direction in life of his own choosing. In 10 years, he could be doing whatever he wants, whilst his attackers will still be wasting their days & lives with the same old wankers, taliking the same old shit, hanging with the same old shitbags in the same piss smelling pubs & eking out a pitiful and worthless existance.
IN the big scheme of things, this is a minor incident, however bad it seems at the minute.
Im sorry if this sounds smug or patronising, but I am a working class male for a rough part of the North East. I know what is like - I escaped & went travelling as soona s I was able * never really returned - I had seen too much.
I go back some 20 years later & for the shitbags, nothing has really changed in their lives, expect they are older.
* awaits onslaught of abuse *
The shite who do this type of thing lead appalling ,sad, wasted, pitiful & usually short lives. They will probabaly never experience true happiness, love, affection & respect ( in the non street sense of the word ) from those around them.They are unhappy & distressed & probabaly have nothing in their lives to look forward to - no travel, no new experiences, no fulfillment.They will never be comfortble with themselves ( not financially ! )
Your son on the other hand obviously has a caring family & is sensitive enought to work out what is going on . In a few years he will be older & better informed to take a direction in life of his own choosing. In 10 years, he could be doing whatever he wants, whilst his attackers will still be wasting their days & lives with the same old wankers, taliking the same old shit, hanging with the same old shitbags in the same piss smelling pubs & eking out a pitiful and worthless existance.
IN the big scheme of things, this is a minor incident, however bad it seems at the minute.
Im sorry if this sounds smug or patronising, but I am a working class male for a rough part of the North East. I know what is like - I escaped & went travelling as soona s I was able * never really returned - I had seen too much.
I go back some 20 years later & for the shitbags, nothing has really changed in their lives, expect they are older.
* awaits onslaught of abuse *
aurora green
Tectonic
You're right that it's a minor incident in the big scheme of things, that these youths proberbly dont or wont have the same opportunity as my lad, but it does make me unhappy that he is growing up absolutely hating the area that he was born and has grown up in. He thinks he doesn't belong here, and already says he cant wait to get away.
toggle
wobbly
citydreams said:
Or you get good enough and show the level of responsibility that the teacher knows you're not ever going to be an aggressor, and they will teach you even nastier stuff than you can just do. A lot of the faffing about in classes is to weed out the people who want to learn how to kick the shit out of people smaller than them, they get bored and leave when they realise that it isn't about learning to be an aggressor.
Once they are gone, the real learning can begin. Lots of nasty, unpleasent techniques that can cause pain and injury or kill before the attcker knows what's hit them, that someone untrained, who thinks they can 'just do it', wouldn't be expecting so won't be able to defend themselves against. Hence not teaching them to someone that the instructor dosen't trust to be responsible. Depending on the instructor, it can take at least 4 years before you begin to learn the really dangerous stuff.
However, in the meantime, the training does give you more ability to deal with a fight, sparring in classes will help stop you freezing up in a real fight, help you learn how to keep on your feet and keep the right distance to defend yourself and you will begin to move more confidently so you look like too much trouble to bother with and you will begin to learn how to spot someone eyeing you up so you know when to run into a shop or turn to confront rather than waiting passively to be attacked.
edited to add,
you're damn right in telling ag that it isn't her fault.
Brixton Hatter
Home is south London mate
really sorry to hear that AG. Is there CCTV in the area where he was attacked?
Minnie_the_Minx
someinenhhanding menbag and me ah bollox
Sorry to hear that Aurora - again
But to be fair, how many people do like the Loughborough Estate and/or the area around Loughborough Junction? It's the kind of place that I usually travel through in a vehicle or by bike and avoid hanging around or stopping if possible (sorry if this comes across as slagging off your neighbourhood btw).aurora green said:You're right that it's a minor incident in the big scheme of things, that these youths proberbly dont or wont have the same opportunity as my lad, but it does make me unhappy that he is growing up absolutely hating the area that he was born and has grown up in. He thinks he doesn't belong here, and already says he cant wait to get away.
Maybe you could get together with other parents in the area to see if other people have similar concerns and maybe collectively come up with some ideas (eg people keeping an eye out for what is going on, telling each other about it and having more of a 'public presence' around the area - a kind of community "diy security").
aurora green
Tectonic
I think cctv is pretty useless in the dark really.
And Teejay, I'm sure you didn't mean to be upsetting, but I was pretty gutted to read your post. I mean I quite like it around here, apart from the street crime. People are friendly, my nieghbours are quiet, I find some of the tower blocks strikingly beautiful.
I'm desperate to move 'cos there's 42 stairs and no lift to my flat, but I've said that I'd prefer to stay on this estate....
There's no chance of moving though, so my family and I are stuck here and we must make the best of it.
Everyone wants the best for their kids though, and now I'm feeling I've failed them really, bringing them up here, but that's the way my life worked out.
And Teejay, I'm sure you didn't mean to be upsetting, but I was pretty gutted to read your post. I mean I quite like it around here, apart from the street crime. People are friendly, my nieghbours are quiet, I find some of the tower blocks strikingly beautiful.
I'm desperate to move 'cos there's 42 stairs and no lift to my flat, but I've said that I'd prefer to stay on this estate....
There's no chance of moving though, so my family and I are stuck here and we must make the best of it.
Everyone wants the best for their kids though, and now I'm feeling I've failed them really, bringing them up here, but that's the way my life worked out.
newbie
undisambiguated
aurora green said:
FWIW every boy and almost all the girls I've known growing up round here have had similar experiences. If it's only happened to your boy a couple of times he's got off lightly, by the age of 15 most have been relieved of bikes, phones, dinner money pretty regularly.... Some of it is aquisitive crime, of course, and I suppose the term 'mugging' is applicable, but tmm it's also about other teenage boys marking out territory, checking the opposition, establishing who is and isn't a player. He'll be off their radar a lot quicker if he's soft and no threat than if he gets all hard and tries to take them on at their own game: bear in mind there's probably a gang backing them up, and at 15 some at least are likely to be carrying knives.
Your fault? maybe, if raising kids in the innercity is seen in an entirely negative light then any local parent is to blame, but look at it in the round and the positives outweight the negatives (far better upbringing than in some insular suburb IMO). Same with choice of school- being part of the local gang may make being 15 easier but a poor education will last for life.
15yo kids beating each other up is a fact of life, and parental anguish won't change that at all, but it will affect how quickly the boy shrugs it off. So long as he knows it's not his fault, and you recognise it's not yours, you both can hopefully let it pass into insignificance pretty quickly.
I'm sorry.aurora green said:
I haven't lived on your estate so I can't really talk from a position of knowledge. I suppose its the same thing when I lived on Railton Road and cabbies where like "railton? wtf!" - I ended up saying "near herne hill station". My feeling is that "traditional" streets offer the advantage that there are lots of windows overlooking the road and people feel protective of their part of the street so it harder for people to hang around and harass people without getting come back. I don't think that housing where there is not really any public 'ownership' of space, no overlooking windows, 'front door space' or residents gardens etc produce the same 'diy policing' that old fashioned streets do. I just think that people's bahaviour reacts to their environment.As for you being a good parent and a success - you do your best and love your kids, so in no way have you failed. We all have issues to face and stuff like this in particular needs collective action IMO.
Structaural
in Chatsubo
toggle said:
well said yourself as well.
Before I did martial arts I used to get into a bit of trouble here and there and found the streets scary. Now, I've never been in a fight, situation (okay once) without being able to confidently talk my way out of it.
It's a myth held by many people that those who do martial arts or boxing are violent people. Most violence is carried out by cowards who usually pick on those less confident/big as them. Most people who can fight - don't do it.
An old saying: 'With ability comes humility'
I'd recommend WuShu Kwan at Addington Square (off Walworth Road) starts at 7 on a Tuesday - costs only 5-7 quid and he's really brilliant with kids and beginners. It's an art as well so he'll learn more than just how to knock someone out. My mates little brother only went for a year - sorted him right out (he then grew to 6'6" - so didn't really need it
Sorry to hear that Aurora - I remember your last thread, it's a tough area, I grew up around there, man could I run fast.
citydreams
on the road again
BootyLove said:
I liked learning WuShu.. Loads of fast counter punches and short kicks.
It's hard not to get carried away with it though. It was designed to be a 'finish them off' martial art.
aurora green said:
NOT SO!!!
At all .....
dirtysanta
Original Casual
pk said:Confidence is everything, if you walk purposefully with head high you can avoid being mugged... and should the situation present itself, you can snap your assailants jaw in three places without leaving tell-tale marks on your fists.
The discipline and the sense of grounding in most martial arts (with a decent tutor) has far more benefits than just being able to smash a person's face, the ability to judge situations before you fall victim to them would be the most relevant here.
All the best though Aurora.
your spot on PK. When i was younger before i knew how to look after myself i was conseidered a fairly easy target. My uncle said to me once; people that go looking for trouble are never as ready as people who are prepared for it. Looking and walking confidently can send out the signal for other potential trouble makers to think twice. But being to defend yourself is fundamental.
I appreciate no one likes to see their kids fighting. But i spent a over a year learning to kick box when i was 14. Not just so that i could knock some prick out but you learn how to defend yourself and not get hit. Sometimes you have to fight fire with fire. You be suprised how many lads that go looking for fight soon shut up once they've had a proper hiding. The flip side is them taking revenge if he puts up a fight.
Shit situation all round.
