MPs wanting a pay rise to £100K!

[mk12]

"And in the second place, all officials, high or low, were paid only the wages received by other workers. The highest salary paid by the Commune to anyone was 6,000 francs. In this way an effective barrier to place-hunting and careerism was set up, even apart from the binding mandates to delegates to representative bodies which were also added in profusion."

Have you given that up as well?

 

[Guineveretoo]

As often happens on these boards, I am losing interest, and feeling that I am being too open for my own good, so I am off out of this 'ere thread.

 

[Das Uberdog]

I think it would be hard to avoid a few perks from being in office - expenses, travel and otherwise being included in that. And I can see the point in maintaining the living standards in say, housing accomodation for MPs - but perhaps if MPs were on minimum wage it would become something a little more manageable which people could actually live on - which really would be one of the main interests in doing so.

But I still believe that MPs should have to balance their budgets every week - like everyone else has to do. They should be reliant upon the same child benefits and regulatory financing systems as the rest of us - or they really never will truly understand.

 

[Hagal]

i say take em down to 25k or whatever the average worker's wage is

The best idea I've heard in ages.

 

[Groucho]

"And in the second place, all officials, high or low, were paid only the wages received by other workers. The highest salary paid by the Commune to anyone was 6,000 francs. In this way an effective barrier to place-hunting and careerism was set up, even apart from the binding mandates to delegates to representative bodies which were also added in profusion."

Have you given that up as well?

Effectively that's what I argued for in advocating the average London wage with expenses seperated out.

Parliament is not the Paris Commune either is it!

Any SWP member elected to Parliament, whether on a RESPECT ticket or what, would take only a workers wage.

 

[tbaldwin]

How much does GG take?

 

[Azrael]

There were no Labour MPs in the 19th Century.

James Keir Hardie, elected as member for West Ham, 1892. The lack of salaries wasn't the only issue. The expansion of the franchise, and relative strength of working class Toryism and Liberalism are equally important factors. MPs weren't paid until 1911, by which time there were at least 24 Labour members in the Commons.

They all had a private income of one kind or another.

Did I ever suggest that they didn't?

I merely suggested that the system wasn't simply in place to screw over the poor, and that introducing saleries has brought its own problems. I never suggested returning to that system: in fact I asked people if they had any ideas to keep wages and solve the problem of bought conscience.

Any ideas?

 

[Guineveretoo]

James Keir Hardie, elected as member for West Ham, 1892. The lack of salaries wasn't the only issue. The expansion of the franchise, and relative strength of working class Toryism and Liberalism are equally important factors. MPs weren't paid until 1911, by which time there were at least 24 Labour members in the Commons.

Did I ever suggest that they didn't?

I merely suggested that the system wasn't simply in place to screw over the poor, and that introducing saleries has brought its own problems. I never suggested returning to that system: in fact I asked people if they had any ideas to keep wages and solve the problem of bought conscience.

Any ideas?

The Labour Party didn't exist until the 20th Century. Here is the History of the Labour Party.


Keir Hardie became a Labour MP in 1900 Linky.

You will see from that first link that it was in order to attract Labour MPs, who didn't have a private income, that the payment of MPs started.

 

[Azrael]

The Labour Party didn't exist until the 20th Century. Here is the History of the Labour Party.


Keir Hardie became a Labour MP in 1900 Linky.

He was an independent Labour MP from 1892-5, and re-elected in 1900. (link) As I said, by 1911 there were at least 24 (unpaid) Labour MPs.

You will see from that first link that it was in order to attract Labour MPs, who didn't have a private income, that the payment of MPs started.

I'm perfectly well aware of that fact. I simply raised the issue that paying MPs brought its own problems.

Since I've never disputed that the old system excluded many people, and never argued that we should return to it, I have to wonder what the point of all this is supposed to be.

 

[Guineveretoo]

He was an independent Labour MP from 1892-5, and re-elected in 1900. (link) As I said, by 1911 there were at least 24 (unpaid) Labour MPs.

I'm perfectly well aware of that fact. I simply raised the issue that paying MPs brought its own problems.

Since I've never disputed that the old system excluded many people, and never argued that we should return to it, I have to wonder what the point of all this is supposed to be.

My point remains, about the fact that there were no Labour MPs in the 19th Century, which you seem to have been disputing. Also, I wasn't questioning what facts you were "well aware of", but was merely adding a piece of information into this thread which, of course, is not merely a conversation between the two of us. If it had been, it would doubtless have been quite different!

 

[Azrael]

My point remains, about the fact that there were no Labour MPs in the 19th Century, which you seem to have been disputing.

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck ...

Keir Hardie came from humble means and was elected on a socialist ticket as an independent labour candidate: in what meaningful sense (as opposed to a semantic one) wasn't he a Labour MP?

 

[mk12]

Parliament is not the Paris Commune either is it!

So? Should we wait till the glorious revolution to introduce all these wonderful measures?

 

[Azrael]

Wait for it? It happened over 300 years ago.

 

[Groucho]

So? Should we wait till the glorious revolution to introduce all these wonderful measures?

No, you are quite right. Could you impliment them tomorrow please?

Report back when you have put these measures in place or otherwise explain why you have not been able to!

Revolutionary measures might take revolutionary means to achieve them!!

 

[mk12]

Yes - but surely we should support the idea (that I imagine would be quite a popular one amongst the wider population) in the here and now? I think democratising (and making more accountable) the system we've got should be supported, although not necessarily being an end in itself. MP on a workers' wage is a pretty basic socialist demand i'd say.

 

[Zeppo]

MPs want 100K pay rise

This is crazy but shows what a bunch of careerist gravy train scumbags they are.

I say give them the £100k or 66% pay rise and the rest of us willl use it as the benchmark for all our pay rises. Inflation? We got it. Below inflation pay rises we got that too.

66% pay rises all round - what is good enough for fat cats is good enough for us. Liberty/equality/fraternity.

Bring back the Chartists and annual elections of Parliament.

 

[Groucho]

btw Zeppo - Gateshead was as dull and pointless as you'd imagine it to be!

 

[In Bloom]

Yes - but surely we should support the idea (that I imagine would be quite a popular one amongst the wider population) in the here and now? I think democratising (and making more accountable) the system we've got should be supported, although not necessarily being an end in itself. MP on a workers' wage is a pretty basic socialist demand i'd say.

A serious campaign with that as it's main demand would be pretty interesting, I have to say.

 

[mk12]

A serious campaign with that as it's main demand would be pretty interesting, I have to say.

in a good way or a bad way? I think it's a "vote-winner" definitely (if I were into vote-winning that is!)

Bring back the Chartists and annual elections of Parliament.

Yes yes yes, but not yet...wait for the revolution! We'll talk about that then

 

[In Bloom]

in a good way or a bad way? I think it's a "vote-winner" definitely (if I were into vote-winning that is!)

In a good way, getting a major campaign which was pro-democratic, recognised the vested interests inherent to parliament and had potential to lower taxes without fucking up what remains of the welfare state would be a great acheivement.

It'd have to be a pretty powerful campaign to force MPs to vote to lower their own wages though.

 

[In Bloom]

A "flood the surgeries" day would be a good kick off for such a campaign, thinking about it. Leaflet locally about it for a few weeks beforehand in as many areas as possible and see who turns up.

 

[Ned Pointsman]

Fairenough, start at 100k and dock the lazy bastards £100 for each law parliament passes.

 

[Azrael]

Nah, start them on nothing and pay them a tenner for every useless law they repeal.

Over 3,000 under Labour alone. (Post 1997) That's going to take some repealing!

 

[mk12]

A "flood the surgeries" day would be a good kick off for such a campaign, thinking about it. Leaflet locally about it for a few weeks beforehand in as many areas as possible and see who turns up.

It would be funny listening to reasons MPs give for having such a high salary. "We deserve it" etc - nurses save lives, shouldn't they be on £100k a year? I'd like to see them worm their way out of that one...

 

[In Bloom]

It would be funny listening to reasons MPs give for having such a high salary. "We deserve it" etc - nurses save lives, shouldn't they be on £100k a year? I'd like to see them worm their way out of that one...

From what I've seen from their feeble excuses previously, it wouldn't ammount to much more than "We're all really clever and qualified, so you'd better pay us more, or we'll fuck off and go back to our careers in law/medicine/whatever"

The phrase "holding the country to ransom" comes to mind