Motorcyclist killed on Dulwich road?

[Mrs Magpie]

DB, my point earlier about road humps versus road 'cushions' versus speed cameras. Can you give us your take on their relative merits etc? Also what are those road cushions actually called?

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

Go on then, provide the evidence for that allegation ...

No. If you don't think you act like that you're kidding yourself. I can't be asked to trawl through threads trying to find examples.

 

[detective-boy]

DB, my point earlier about road humps versus road 'cushions' versus speed cameras. Can you give us your take on their relative merits etc? Also what are those road cushions actually called?

I think some of them are actually called cushions, but there's a whole range of different designs, some called humps, some called tables and some called all sorts of other things, I'm sure!

Physical traffic calming, whether by humps or redesigned layouts or whatever, have the advantage of slowing (to some extent) all traffic. Unfortunately this includes emergency vehicles and whilst them being slowed on the last few hundred yards of any journey in side streets may not be the end of the world, there is clearly a significant problem if the measures are used on through roads where emergency vehicles may be travelling some distance.

As for the relative merits of different types of humps, I am not sure I know enough about them to say. I know the idea of the cushions is that they impact on cars (being wider than the typical saloon wheelbase) but not on emergency vehicles with wider wheelbases. Unfortunately that also means they do not impact on vans, many 4x4s, motorcycles, etc.

Speed cameras do not directly prevent excessive speed in the same way as physical traffic calming measures - they act solely as a deterrent. They are also a totally blunt instrument in that they do not distinguish in any way between different road conditions (the speed limit is an arbitrary figure which is neither always safe nor always unsafe). Unlike physical traffic calming, however, they do bring a very significant increase in the chance of being caught breaing the law (a massive deterrent factor) and they provide a means of prosecution of those caught. There is no doubt that they are effective in relation to speed offences but they do nothing at all in relation to other means of dangerous driving and unregistered drivers. When used to relentlessly prosecute otherwise law-abiding people (as they seem to increasngly be) in non-dangerous situations (e.g. 48mph on a deserted 40mph dual carriageway at 3am on a dry clear night) they bring the enforcement of the law into disrepute and, I believe, discourage sensible, thinking driving.

Neither physical traffic calming or cameras have all the answers. They need to be used intellgently and with other methods, not least police patrol or visiting checks (sadly the police traffic activity I have seen recently seems to be based on using their new digital laser speed guns which do not involve them actually stopping any offending vehicles ... ).

 

[detective-boy]

No. If you don't think you act like that you're kidding yourself. I can't be asked to trawl through threads trying to find examples.

Which, roughly translated, means "I just said that off the top of my head and, now I think of it, I can't actually remember any concrete examples" ...

 

[Blagsta]

Will you please fuck off trying to engage with me. I am ignoring everything you say and you will not that I have not directed any response to you since the mods told us to pack it in.

Put me on ignore if you can't control yourself.

 

[Mrs Magpie]

cameras.......do nothing at all in relation to other means of dangerous driving and unregistered drivers.

Yeah, that's my take. Is London cursed with a higher proportion of illegal drivers, or is that just a perception? Quite a lot of people I know who have been involved in accidents often seem to find that the other party is untraceable....maybe I just don't hear about the cases that are resolved without hassle....

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

Which, roughly translated, means "I just said that off the top of my head and, now I think of it, I can't actually remember any concrete examples" ...

Yeah whatever. You can think about why you come across like that or you can carry on feeling self-righteous as usual. It doesn't make any odds to me tbh.

 

[detective-boy]

Is London cursed with a higher proportion of illegal drivers, or is that just a perception?

I think it is. There certainly doesn't seem to be any shortage of uninsured / untaxed / unregistered vehicles when the police and other agencies do one of their "swoops" which dos rather suggest there are loads of them out there everywhere.

Ironically, the ever-increasing use of cameras, and the ever-increasing use of absolute responsibility of registered keepers, is encouraging ever more people to duck and dive when it comes to registering their vehicles (foreign registration is a recent wheeze ...). The figures which periodically pop up from TfL or from the council parking authorities suggest this is an increasing issue. That is one of the major downsides of cameras and automated prosection of registered keepers ... it ONLY works in relation to the law-abiding who have properly registered their vehicles. And the apparent lack of enthusiasm for persecution of the law-avoiding is one of the big things which pisses them off.

 

[Radar]

I think it is. There certainly doesn't seem to be any shortage of uninsured / untaxed / unregistered vehicles when the police and other agencies do one of their "swoops" which dos rather suggest there are loads of them out there everywhere.

I was riding home through the Limehouse Link last night. This black hatchback went through all 3 sets of cameras at warp factor 5, triggering them one after the other. He made no effort whatsoever to slow down for any of them (no brake lights) and pretty much cut up every car he passed.

When I drew level with him at the next set of lights on the Highway its was a mid twenties bloke suited and booted

The age old story.. Never a copper around when you need one

This was a UK registered vehicle. I assume driving like that you'd either have to change your car or reg plates every few weeks as that's all it would take for the police or DVLA to realise they have no reliable data on who owns the vehicle and for that registration to hit the automated stop lists.

The terrifying thing about these sort of drivers is that there seems to be no comeback whatsoever if they can't be identified. If I'd have been in front of him or filtering, rather than in lane 1 when he shot past it could have been very messy indeed. Human nature being what it is, if someone thinks there are no possible consequences to their actions, then those actions are often horrendous.

You get pricks like this all over the place, when I lived down Park Hall Road and commuted to the Isle of Dogs it was like a replay of Mad Max

 

[detective-boy]

This was a UK registered vehicle. I assume driving like that you'd either have to change your car or reg plates every few weeks as that's all it would take for the police or DVLA to realise they have no reliable data on who owns the vehicle and for that registration to hit the automated stop lists.

I wouldn't bet on that. There are no "automated stop lists". A vehicle number has to be specifically identified by someone as of interest worthy of having a marker placed on the PNC. And there is little routine sharing of information between different police units, let alone different agencies. It's all there if they care to look ... but they don't because that takes time and effort. So until the number starts to appear regularly in the same agencies systems, or some individual enforcement officer (perhaps the operator viewing the three cameras blitzed in quick succession) decides to dig further, no connections are made.

And stopped by who anyway? How many times have you passed anything which resembles a stop-check? Everything else is steadily being replaced by cameras ...

 

[dream_girl]

You really are spectacularly fucking stupid ...

My personal experience is that people who feel able to post prejudiced shite like this are dickheads.

I love policemen - I really do

Yes. It is. You judge individuals on the basis of your prejudices against a group. End of.

There is a world of difference between judging people on the basis of an attribute they were born with (being gay or black or a man) - or occured to them randomly and out of their control such as losing the abilty to walk, becoming unemployed, etc. - and something that someone chooses to do (ride a motorbike, drive a car, become a politician, etc).

Example - only complete cunts choose a career in the police.

 

[dream_girl]

If you were hit at 30 you'd be killed or seriously injured. Fortunately it never seems to happen. Bikes in town always manage to stay on target. As a cyclist/ped/car driver myself I know how scary it is when they whizz past with inches to spare. But they hardly ever hit anything unless a car pulls a SMIDSY on them. So it's best just to trust them to get on with it. The only sub-group which can't be trusted is the teenage show-offs on scooters who like to pull stunts and ride absolutely everywhere at full throttle. But they're east to spot. And I like to think their riding is somewhat self-limiting.

As for the ones who cut you up or are otherwise rude in ASLs or bus lanes, show no mercy - that's unforgiveable. IME the sub-group to blame for this is typically the self-centred newbie commuter who thinks he's riding sensibly but is somewhat overwhelmed by the experience, never looks in his mirrors and is always getting in everyone's way. A lot of them have a near miss and go back to public transport in fear after just one season of commuting. But of course they are always replaced by the new season's intake of fresh meat.

Any biker with experience and half a brain realises that everyone on a two wheeler is equally vulnerable and we should be spreading a bit of cameraderie. The people without engines should always be given priority and plenty of wobble-margin. If I come across one trying to negotiate a death-defying lane change (e.g. the elephant and castle roundabout) I try to protect them from cars.

thankyou for dealing with my points reasonably unlike dick boy there

well yes, you may be right about m-cyclists knowing what they are doing but i still feel they are not factoring in the unexpected - I might lose my arm if I signal at the wrong time - or even look behind to see if its safe to signal, and wobble slightly.

sometimes after a m-bike has screamed past me inches away I've been left seriously stressed and shaking - I wish the riders would consider this possibility first. I've caught some up and complained and quite often get told to fuck off when it was actually an apolgy I would have liked.

Never mind.

 

[detective-boy]

There is a world of difference between judging people on the basis of an attribute they were born with (being gay or black or a man) - or occured to them randomly and out of their control such as losing the abilty to walk, becoming unemployed, etc. - and something that someone chooses to do (ride a motorbike, drive a car, become a politician, etc).

There is a difference. But there is not a "world of difference". It is exactly the same unjustifiable, prejudicial attitude being displayed - hating someone else because of some real or perceived difference.

Are you really arguing that it would be perfectly OK to hate, say, new age travellers, who have made a life choice you do not approve of?

 

[dream_girl]

Are you really arguing that it would be perfectly OK to hate, say, new age travellers, who have made a life choice you do not approve of?

I've met plenty of people that do hate New Age Travellers. I don't personally, but would never equate that with racism. It seems to be an acceptable opinion for many.

I repeat - WORLD of difference.

 

[detective-boy]

sometimes after a m-bike has screamed past me inches away I've been left seriously stressed and shaking - I wish the riders would consider this possibility first.

...

sometimes after a p-bike has wandered into my path without looking and I have managed to avoid them by inches I've been left seriously stressed and shaking (and, on one occasion, on the fucking floor faced with a massive repair bill and no-one to sue) - I wish the riders would consider this possibility first.

...

See. We can all do that. But I don't claim or imply that ALL pedal cyclists are pricks. Why do you persist in generalising about motorcyclists? All it does is demonstrate that you really ARE prejudiced. Why not admit it?

 

[detective-boy]

I've met plenty of people that do hate New Age Travellers. I don't personally, but would never equate that with racism. It seems to be an acceptable opinion for many.

* Gives up trying to reason with the terminally stupid ... *

 

[dream_girl]

...See. We can all do that. But I don't claim or imply that ALL pedal cyclists are pricks. Why do you persist in generalising about motorcyclists? All it does is demonstrate that you really ARE prejudiced. Why not admit it?

No you're SO right. I renounce all my hateful prejudices.

Peace and love to all motorcyclists.




Still hate coppers though.

 

[dream_girl]

* Gives up trying to reason with the terminally stupid ... *

Arsehole

 

[dream_girl]

...sometimes after a p-bike has wandered into my path without looking and I have managed to avoid them by inches I've been left seriously stressed and shaking (and, on one occasion, on the fucking floor faced with a massive repair bill and no-one to sue) - I wish the riders would consider this possibility first.

Doesn't work

 

[Crispy]

Enough. "Arsehole" and "I hate coppers" are not arguments.

 

[dream_girl]

Enough. "Arsehole" and "I hate coppers" are not arguments.

Neither is calling me dickhead or terminally stupid. I can't argue with him - he just winds me up - and I reckon he does it on purpose to get the other person on the back foot. I reckon he learned it in police training.

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

Enough. "Arsehole" and "I hate coppers" are not arguments.

Hmmm, I'm not one for arguing with modding policy but I think that's unfair. Why does Dream Girl get a warning and not Detective Boy?

 

[dream_girl]

Hmmm, I'm not one for arguing with modding policy but I think that's unfair. Why does Dream Girl get a warning and not Detective Boy?

Was that a warning?

Oh goody

 

[Crispy]

DB has already been spoken to in private, afaik.

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

Fair enough.

 

[dream_girl]

DB has already been spoken to in private, afaik.

Why him in private and me on the boards. It makes me look like a cunt doesn't it?

 

[snowy_again]

I'm doing a scientific survey (based on drinking at the regent) which so far concludes that there's actually not that much speeding going on - or at least not as much as I'd first imagined. There's a lot of noisy noisy cars / bikes accelerating on the stretch between say Chaucer and Rymer, but no consistent speeding down the entire street.

The bus stop outside the lido / regent is the cause for at least one near miss a day, due to impatient motorists getting annoyed and crossing the central dotted line to overtake it, invariably directly into the oncoming vehicle.

Unfortunately this research is probably indirectly sponsored by Diageo or a PubCo and therefore should be taken with a pinch of salt (like most message board based conversations).

 

[Radar]

Am I pre judging or have I had 35 years experience as a cyclist, motorist and pedestrian, and am now sick and tired of idiots who ride motorbikes?

Why him in private and me on the boards. It makes me look like a cunt doesn't it?

Not really, your preconceptions about bikers did that all on their own

 

[Crispy]

Why him in private and me on the boards. It makes me look like a cunt doesn't it?

Cos one mod went one way and the other went the other. Sorry, we're inconsistent, but we do try to do our best.

I find a good rule of thumb is - stay civil. Then you don't have to worry about us sticking our noses in at all

 

[dream_girl]

Cos one mod went one way and the other went the other. Sorry, we're inconsistent, but we do try to do our best.

I find a good rule of thumb is - stay civil. Then you don't have to worry about us sticking our noses in at all

think i might have to put dick boy on ignore - he winds me up every time