That is so inappropriate in this case.
I can't believe that even you would sink so low. Are you drunk?
Mother tormented to suicide by teenage gang. UK Police indifferent. Peter Dow cares.
- Thread starter Peter Dow
- Start date
That is so inappropriate in this case.
I can't believe that even you would sink so low. Are you drunk?
No shit. I can't believe the way some people have reacted to this.
but everyone always feels that, although tbf anti-social behaviour is a new invention, there used to just be crime and being a bit annoying
i just dont see anything that much different to the stuff going on when i was a kid (favourite local paper regular story was granny mugged), half the people i knew carried knives and on mischief night in west yorkshire it wasnt uncommen for people to nail there letterboxes shut to prevent impromptu firework deliveries
i think what has changed is people are more inclined to involve the police and that the incessant mass media pump it in our faces constantly
Fullyplumped
in a personal capacity
Do you think we should just put up with it? Not make a big fuss, it's always been like that?
i think communities where possible should deal with things themselves and yes i think people should fuck off with whinging about children playing in the street and get a bit of fucking backbone
Fullyplumped
in a personal capacity
We're not taliking about children playing in the street. If communities could deal effectively with gangs of teenagers and children harassing people who are eccentric or disabled than it would have happened by now. They can't. Many people fear the consequences of standing up against them, and most couldn't be bothered, while the children's parents are ineffective or complicit. The police are the agency charged with tackling crime and keeping the peace and they need to do their job so people can enjoy life in the communities they live in, even if some of those people don't fit in with the norm.
FFS. One reason more not to visit this place. The bitterness and cynicism in some people is sickening.
I know in my heart that this is the kind of thing that I'm heading straight towards. I'm either going to end up in prison, dead or horribly maimed because of dealing with cunts like this. Because the police are - consistently - so fucking lax, lazy and cowardly when it comes to dealing with this, and because, without outside intervention, these things have a logic of escalation that just seems inescapable, I see no other solution than immediate and uncompromising violence in response.
I've got stuck in three times in the last couple of years to help people in trouble and in all cases, neither me, nor the victims had any desire to call the police afterwards, assuming it would be - at best - a waste of time or, more likely, a lot of trouble and aggravation and unwanted attention. One of these occasions was a man who sexually assaulted two - two! - women in front of me and would certainly have raped them if there had been no one around to help. I chased him off the first woman and stayed with her, with the intention of waiting for her friends to come get her, then he ran up the road and I saw him grab another woman, shove her against the wall, and stick his hand straight up her skirt. I ran up the road and kicked the shit out of him. He got up after a few minutes and ran off. After the girls' friends arrived no one was interested in calling the police and I wasn't the first one to mention the likelihood that it would be me arrested, this is despite the fact that other people really needed to know who this guy was before he did the same thing to someone else.
The other two occasions were two pairs of lads who were mugging people going down a quiet lane in town, I saw these people who had been mugged in obvious distress and they told me what happened. End result is, after hovering around at the end of the lane to watch what they are doing, I end up chinning them. No police again.
And those are just the incidents away from the club, there have been more when an emergency call has gone to the police direct from the radio - given specifically to the club by the police for that purpose - where they just can't be bothered to turn up when they know its all kicking off. Or they turn up, sit there and watch while we fight it out, and then come and harass us despite witnessing the whole thing. I'm sick to death of it. One of the best ones was when some youngster (just turned 18) told us he'd been robbed at knifepoint up the road. One of his friends paid him in, a little while later he comes out and tells us the guy who mugged him is actually inside the club, so we find this bloke, search him - sure enough he has a nice six inch knife on him and this bloke's stuff. So we hold onto him and call the police - the police state that if we detain him, they will come and arrest us, so we had to let the fucker go!! I really felt for the poor kid who was mugged - he called the police himself demanding that they take a statement and look at the CCTV footage. They promised to turn up. An hour later, he was still waiting. He called them again and they said they would come to his house the following day. We saw him the next week. They never turned up.
And these stories aren't particularly exceptional. This kind of thing seems to be happening all over the country. What are people supposed to do?
I've got stuck in three times in the last couple of years to help people in trouble and in all cases, neither me, nor the victims had any desire to call the police afterwards, assuming it would be - at best - a waste of time or, more likely, a lot of trouble and aggravation and unwanted attention. One of these occasions was a man who sexually assaulted two - two! - women in front of me and would certainly have raped them if there had been no one around to help. I chased him off the first woman and stayed with her, with the intention of waiting for her friends to come get her, then he ran up the road and I saw him grab another woman, shove her against the wall, and stick his hand straight up her skirt. I ran up the road and kicked the shit out of him. He got up after a few minutes and ran off. After the girls' friends arrived no one was interested in calling the police and I wasn't the first one to mention the likelihood that it would be me arrested, this is despite the fact that other people really needed to know who this guy was before he did the same thing to someone else.
The other two occasions were two pairs of lads who were mugging people going down a quiet lane in town, I saw these people who had been mugged in obvious distress and they told me what happened. End result is, after hovering around at the end of the lane to watch what they are doing, I end up chinning them. No police again.
And those are just the incidents away from the club, there have been more when an emergency call has gone to the police direct from the radio - given specifically to the club by the police for that purpose - where they just can't be bothered to turn up when they know its all kicking off. Or they turn up, sit there and watch while we fight it out, and then come and harass us despite witnessing the whole thing. I'm sick to death of it. One of the best ones was when some youngster (just turned 18) told us he'd been robbed at knifepoint up the road. One of his friends paid him in, a little while later he comes out and tells us the guy who mugged him is actually inside the club, so we find this bloke, search him - sure enough he has a nice six inch knife on him and this bloke's stuff. So we hold onto him and call the police - the police state that if we detain him, they will come and arrest us, so we had to let the fucker go!! I really felt for the poor kid who was mugged - he called the police himself demanding that they take a statement and look at the CCTV footage. They promised to turn up. An hour later, he was still waiting. He called them again and they said they would come to his house the following day. We saw him the next week. They never turned up.
And these stories aren't particularly exceptional. This kind of thing seems to be happening all over the country. What are people supposed to do?
Grandma Death
Reconfiguring & Reconstructing
You're wasting your time. Dow rarely gets into debate-he just spams boards like this and another one I use....he is nothing but a shameless self publicist.
Paulie Tandoori
shut it you egg!
I found that reading about this today was very distressing on so many levels. At it's very most basic, this is a "wtf!!!!" story. It's a sad indictment of our society and our community that someone can be driven to do what this woman did for the reasons she appears to have done. Awful stuff 
I think its Peter Dow that has sunk so low. What kind of a twat uses a case like this as self promotion. I think VPs comments were fair enough really.
Azrael
circling Airstrip One
Stop voting for any party that refuses to return discretion to individual officers, scrap PACE, and reform the prisons. Ditto any party that refuses to recreate the beat system, instead of making pointless squeaks about putting officers back onto a beat that no longer exists.
This is all rooted in mindset that refuses to impose consequences for wrong acts. If you don't give criminals consequences, they'll inflict them on you.
This story isn't a tragic accident, or isolated incident. It's an inevitable consequence of withdrawing the police from the streets and making them the servants of an amoral bureaucratic code instead of the people. It's also a consequence of making excuses for criminals (although everyone claims that they don't). Would an officer who knew his or her patch have allowed things to escalate anywhere close to this? I doubt it.
The parents clearly lack either the ability or the will to discipline their children. They should be given help, but also expected to act responsibly. If they're not capable then, hard as it is, their children will have to be taken into care.
This all takes time, will, and money. All Labour and the Conservatives have to offer are ASBOs and databases. They're so remote from reality they can't see how futile this is. And until they're replaced by people who do, we'll see more of these stories.
traducing people's opinions and experiences - and not even the unreasonable ones - like that is hardly going to help and just smacks of arrogance.
As to the overall thrust of your point Azrael, I agree with you. A return to Peelian principles is exactly what I'm voting for.
No matter what your justification ... that is part of the problem. If it is not reported it stands no chance of being in any statistics (and performance management patently ensures that only what gets counted gets done). It does not form any part of any crime pattern analysis and, hence, plays no part in directing proactive patrols or operations. And it means that an opportunity to prosecute a known offender is missed which (a) means a missed opportunity to deter them and (b) bolsters their belief that they are untouchable and almost guarantees they will continue to act in that way again.
The failure to report the serious sexual assaults is, to be frank, criminal. It is very, very well know that rapists frequently start out doing lesser sexual assaults and their violence escalates. I would stake an awful lot on the fact that the person you and they failed to report will (maybe already has) rape. And possibly kill.
If there is a clear danger to yourself or someone else you will NOT get fucking arrested for intervening as long as you act responsibly and the force you use is reasonable and necessary to prevent you or they being harmed. Don't believe the shite in the Daily Hate.
Why do you believe them when (if) they tell you this shite? Once you've fucking detained him, you've detained him. It makes no fucking difference if you let him go again. If he's committed an offence keep ringing the fucking police and challenge them to arrest you instead. If they do, sue the fucking arses off them.
You keep bleating on about this shite - if it's really as bad as you allege, complain about it (police, IPCC, councillors, MPs, media ...) ... or is there another side to this story? Is your vigilanteism actually part of the problem rather than part of the solution - maybe that is why you can't/won't involve the police.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
You can fuck the fuck off too, dwyer.
wow im amazed
such a liberal board and yet so many people are advocating for vigilante groups and the compulsory seizure of children into state care... removal of statutory guidance that was put in place to stop police officers "using individual discretion" and busting people based on their own prejudices and an end to the culture of forgiveness, second chances and rehabilitation
sorry guys, but the reason we are so fucked up now is because of the anti-establishment, socialist worker, left wing do gooding mentalities of the 70's
we cant have our cake and eat it, do we want coppers on the streets enforcing laws... clipping kids behind their ears....... busting people cause they happen to be in an area of high crime at a time when the highest amount of crime is commited...... do we want existing laws to be enforced even when we dont agree with them (thinking of the fuss a bout the "rave in a exeter field" a few months back
personally i agree, i think that country is going to the dogs with the police being expected to fight crime whilst treating those that nick as "customers" and with strict instructions not to fight back. yet when the police do fight back (g20 stuff) to enforce the law.. people kick up shouting police state and lack of freedoms
we cant have it both ways
such a liberal board and yet so many people are advocating for vigilante groups and the compulsory seizure of children into state care... removal of statutory guidance that was put in place to stop police officers "using individual discretion" and busting people based on their own prejudices and an end to the culture of forgiveness, second chances and rehabilitation
sorry guys, but the reason we are so fucked up now is because of the anti-establishment, socialist worker, left wing do gooding mentalities of the 70's
we cant have our cake and eat it, do we want coppers on the streets enforcing laws... clipping kids behind their ears....... busting people cause they happen to be in an area of high crime at a time when the highest amount of crime is commited...... do we want existing laws to be enforced even when we dont agree with them (thinking of the fuss a bout the "rave in a exeter field" a few months back
personally i agree, i think that country is going to the dogs with the police being expected to fight crime whilst treating those that nick as "customers" and with strict instructions not to fight back. yet when the police do fight back (g20 stuff) to enforce the law.. people kick up shouting police state and lack of freedoms
we cant have it both ways
Jeff Robinson
Marxist-Lentilist: Jackboots and Jackfruit
"management by terror" (aka capitalism)
Absolutely tragic.
Nevertheless, these little shits are mere amateurs at driving people to suicide compared to companies like Orange:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/sep/18/france-telecom-suicides-orange-bullying
Absolutely tragic.
Nevertheless, these little shits are mere amateurs at driving people to suicide compared to companies like Orange:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/sep/18/france-telecom-suicides-orange-bullying
the point being that tragic as the story is, the reason its in a national newspaper is because it hardley ever happens
FabricLiveBaby!
Live Baby Fabric!
What, you mean like MPs expenses?
audiotech
wav, aiff, mp3, ogg, flac
Yep, it's all their fault. Hob nob?
subversplat
writer of wrongs
I, for one, am glad that there's a Peter Dow caring on my behalf 
not comparable, try again
I, for one, am glad that there's a Peter Dow caring on my behalf
It does take a huge weight off my mind I can tell you that much.
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