More proof that "audiophiles" are fuckwits

[Fictionist]

If you think that different interconnects make a difference to the sound you're rather deluded.

I hereby offer you the entire contents of my recording studio if, in a controlled double blind test, you can tell the difference between any of them.

Oh, and James Randi will also give you a million dollars

Up for it?

It is a bit late for me having put together my current system over a number of years, which is the result of hours of listening to a host of equipment to ascertain what *I* felt made a difference to my listening experience.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

It is a bit late for me having put together my current system over a number of years, which is the result of hours of listening to a host of equipment to ascertain what *I* felt made a difference to my listening experience.

So, fancy taking the test then? You may have a nice setup now, but think what a nice pair of studio monitors fed with proper balanced cabling will sound like


Oh, and if you really want to make the test interesting we'll swap the CD player for a few cheapo ones as well, I'm willing to bet you can't tell the difference with that either

 

[Fictionist]

So, fancy taking the test then? You may have a nice setup now, but think what a nice pair of studio monitors fed with proper balanced cabling will sound like


Oh, and if you really want to make the test interesting we'll swap the CD player for a few cheapo ones as well, I'm willing to bet you can't tell the difference with that either

You are tweaking my interest regarding the test, I would be interested in seeing if my ears have failed me for all these years. Regarding the cd player, it took me three models before I finally settled on the one I have now.

What sort of amplification would you be using?

 

[longdog]

You are tweaking my interest regarding the test, I would be interested in seeing if my ears have failed me for all these years. Regarding the cd player, it took me three models before I finally settled on the one I have now.

What sort of amplification would you be using?

Might I be permitted to ask whether you settled on the final CD player because subjectively it sounded better or because you thought it was a more accurate reproduction and if so what you were judging that against?

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

You are tweaking my interest regarding the test, I would be interested in seeing if my ears have failed me for all these years. Regarding the cd player, it took me three models before I finally settled on the one I have now.

What sort of amplification would you be using?

Whatever you feel is required to highlight the differences between cables



(I am entirely serious BTW - if you really want to organise a test I'll get in touch with people at the JREF forums, being able to tell the differences between audio cables is a subject that crops up there from time to time - Pear Cables made noises about being tested and pulled out at the last minute IIRC)

 

[FridgeMagnet]

What kind of music do audiophiles listen to?

Almost universally 60s and 70s guitar rock in my experience. Lots and lots of Led Zeppelin and Deep Purple. A performance to demonstrate the awesome power of their latest set of five hundred quid oxygen-free gold aligned-vibration jesus cables will always be accompanied by a lecture about how nobody makes music like this any more and that was a golden age of music and we'll never hear the like again.

It makes me want to download the shittest possible song off some band on myspace and play it non-stop through my phone.

 

[aqua]

genesis

 

[FridgeMagnet]

I have to say, though, that I used to get angry about this shit and in the end just thought "this is a perfectly nice person, they're apparently getting some placebo effect from all the junk science and paying too much money, I'm just going to leave them to it as long as they don't end up not being able to eat from shelling out this kind of cash".

If they are being cocks about it, however, I will absolutely point and laugh at great length.

 

[Fictionist]

Might I be permitted to ask whether you settled on the final CD player because subjectively it sounded better or because you thought it was a more accurate reproduction and if so what you were judging that against?

I bought it because I liked the sound. It was (ultimately) quite a hard choice to make as two cd players really stood out for me, and it took repeated listening to as much of my music collection before I finally decided.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

I used to get angry about this shit and in the end just thought "this is a perfectly nice person, they're apparently getting some placebo effect from all the junk science and paying too much money, I'm just going to leave them to it as long as they don't end up not being able to eat from shelling out this kind of cash".

I like to chat to people about it becuase if you do want to spend ££££s on a system there is one area you should spend it on - the speakers.

A system with a £100 CD player, £200 amp and £5000 speakers with electrical flex for speaker cable will piss all over one with a £1500 CD player, £1500 amp and £2000 speakers with "proper" cable.

The CD player you use nowadays is almost irrelevant*, and as long as you have enough headroom the amp choice will have a minimal effect on the sound as well. Speakers, and their positioning in the room they're in, are what makes or breaks a system.





*Old CD players can be a bit hit or miss, due to the quality of the digital to analogue converters, and really cheap ones can have noisy transport mechanisms

 

[longdog]

genesis

You wash your mouth out young lady

Oh! And don't anyone give me that 'They were OK until Peter Gabriel left' bollocks,they weren't. They were shit before, shit after and will for all time be utterly, utterly shit.

 

[longdog]

I bought it because I liked the sound. It was (ultimately) quite a hard choice to make as two cd players really stood out for me, and it took repeated listening to as much of my music collection before I finally decided.

Fair enough. You bought it because subjectively you liked the sound, can't argue with that really.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

I like to chat to people about it becuase if you do want to spend ££££s on a system there is one area you should spend it on - the speakers.

This is true actually, they never spend any serious money or attention on the speakers - they'll wank on for ages about valve amps and cables, but somehow, the thing that the sound is actually physically generated by never seems to be that important.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

This is true actually, they never spend any serious money or attention on the speakers - they'll wank on for ages about valve amps and cables, but somehow, the thing that the sound is actually physically generated by never seems to be that important.

What people almost always ignore is the acoustics of the room they listen in, and this has a huge effect on what you hear.

Have a look at pictures of a studio control room to see what you have to do to get an accurate listening environment...

 

[teuchter]

I like to chat to people about it becuase if you do want to spend ££££s on a system there is one area you should spend it on - the speakers.

A system with a £100 CD player, £200 amp and £5000 speakers with electrical flex for speaker cable will piss all over one with a £1500 CD player, £1500 amp and £2000 speakers with "proper" cable.

The CD player you use nowadays is almost irrelevant*, and as long as you have enough headroom the amp choice will have a minimal effect on the sound as well. Speakers, and their positioning in the room they're in, are what makes or breaks a system.





*Old CD players can be a bit hit or miss, due to the quality of the digital to analogue converters

I mostly agree with all this. Certainly speakers make a big difference. I've never been able to hear any difference between cables. I have heard a difference between a good CD player and a cheapo one; turning up the volume on a very quiet track revealed a degree of hiss and distortion. Amplifiers I've heard a difference in when they are turned up enough.

Aside from speakers of course, the room you place everything in is very significant. There are a lot of "audiophiles" who spend a lot of time and effort customising their listening rooms with all sorts of acoustic treatments. This does seem a better way to blow a few thousand pounds than on expensive cables.

Based on my own messing around over the years I have come to the conclusion that speakers are the bit most worth spending the money/time on. This seems to directly contradict the advice I still see regularly bandied about on audio forums/magazines and the like: that you should concentrate your investment in the source, then the amplification, then the speakers. This seems to be accepted wisdom amongst many yet it just doesn't seem to be true.

 

[aqua]

You wash your mouth out young lady

Oh! And don't anyone give me that 'They were OK until Peter Gabriel left' bollocks,they weren't. They were shit before, shit after and will for all time be utterly, utterly shit.

wtf are you on about? the question was asked what type of music these people listened to and I said genesis

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

Amplifiers I've heard a difference in when they are turned up enough

This is almost certainly due to them having different power outputs - a small amp will have to work a lot harder, and will distort/clip sooner to get the same output as a big one basically.

 

[longdog]

wtf are you on about? the question was asked what type of music these people listened to and I said genesis

There is no excuse for using the 'G' word

Did you know that if you look in a mirror and say Phil Collins three times he appears and sings at you until you die from an overdose of dull mediocrity?

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

There are a lot of "audiophiles" who spend a lot of time and effort customising their listening rooms with all sorts of acoustic treatments

Most of it is utter toss though. I can't find the link now, but I've seen one guy selling what were nothing more than planks of wood for around $500


Edit - Found it

Behold the "Altmann Acoustic Panel"

"The combination of high-quality wood and special treatment gives the panel a vibrational- and reflection-characteristic that matches the Mother-of-Tone character, the ear's own character after which all sounds are evaluated"

 

[Meltingpot]

LOL.

Imagine playing your records on this;

http://www.hifidelityaudio.co.uk/turntable_clearaudio_reference.htm

Over 9 grand, and you've still got to find the money for the tomearm, cartridge and dustcover

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

Or does anyone fancy a nice pair of Shakti Hallographs?

(they're the wiggly bits of wood in the pic btw)


These are rather amazing things which "contours the frequency, amplitude and time coefficients of the first reflections you hear, which produces a stunning increase in realism"

Bullshit filled review of them here

 

[laptop]

WtF is that album cover?

Looks like Best of The Sweeney Incidental Music

 

[FridgeMagnet]

LOL.

Imagine playing your records on this;

http://www.hifidelityaudio.co.uk/turntable_clearaudio_reference.htm

Over 9 grand, and you've still got to find the money for the tomearm, cartridge and dustcover

On the other hand, that _looks_ superb. It's more like something which would surgically implant a neural device to let you receive coded tachyon transmissions from the future.

 

[Fictionist]

Fair enough. You bought it because subjectively you liked the sound, can't argue with that really.

I can't really imagine buying equipment without doing it in this way. You have to make sure you take your own music along with you and then spend as much time as possible actually listening to what you like and then trust your ears and judgement. Ideally get the equipment home on loan (if you can) to hear how it will sound in your home environment (it also means you have greater access to even more of your own music).

You might hate the sound it makes, but then I might hate the sound that you might prefer. But if it gets you listening to more music, even different types of music, then go for it! It has to be about the music - the equipment is a means to an end and no more.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

Ideally get the equipment home on loan (if you can) to hear how it will sound in your home environment

Absolutely.

But the only thing that will really make any difference is the speakers

 

[Fictionist]

Absolutely.

But the only thing that will really make any difference is the speakers

I'm probably a bit of a 'flat earther' - but my speakers are none too shabby. I'm enjoying your input on this Bee - presumably you work in a professional capacity around this type of thing?

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

presumably you work in a professional capacity around this type of thing?

I'm a live sound engineer (FOH/monitors) and I also have my own small studio for pre/post production and editing as well as recording

What speakers have you got? I'm always up for a bit of speaker porn (checkout this thread)

 

[Fictionist]

That sounds fantastic, it must be a great thing to earn your living by. Do you have a separate system that you use to listen to music to, or do you use your studio to listen to everything?

 

[Crispy]

On the other hand, that _looks_ superb. It's more like something which would surgically implant a neural device to let you receive coded tachyon transmissions from the future.

It does look excellent. Chris Cunningham would probably have sex with it.

 

[story]

Or does anyone fancy a nice pair of Shakti Hallographs?

(they're the wiggly bits of wood in the pic btw)

Well it's an alter, isn't it.

Excellent stuff.



We have some smartypants audio equipment, but not to this degree. And it's all about the speakers really. And yes, there is a sweet spot right in the middle of the room where it all sounds perfect. You have to stand up to be in that spot though. If we're listening to the production values, then we're not listening for pleasure, it's a different kind of listening.


I'd always assumed audiophiles listen to plenty of jazz, and yes, G*****is too.

Doesn't enhancing the sound to the zillionth degree also amplify all the hisses and gurgles and what have you of the original recordings? Or is that part of the pleasure?