More Fuel Protests Threatened - Would they be justified?

[magneze]

No, they're lame and always will be lame because they're basicaly glorified batteries used to power electric motors. And electric motors are teh suck, because they're not powerful enough and don't go BROOOOOOOOOM.

Unlike a BMW with a hydrogen powered v12

http://www.bmwworld.com/hydrogen/h2r_racer.htm

The technology is there. Why can't we buy stuff like this?

Because of the vested interest in Oil. Wankers.

 

[tom k&e]

The technology is there. Why can't we buy stuff like this?

Because of the vested interest in Oil. Wankers.

Bollocks. We can't buy it because it's far too expensive, and no-one will buy it. When oil prices get high enough, it will be economic to produce hydrogen cars. I suspect hybrids will become very popular too if the current petrol prices stay for the long term

 

[magneze]

Bollocks. We can't buy it because it's far too expensive, and no-one will buy it. When oil prices get high enough, it will be economic to produce hydrogen cars. I suspect hybrids will become very popular too if the current petrol prices stay for the long term

Bollocks yourself. It's too expensive because it hasn't had the same money pumped into it. However, I agree that the high oil price does mean that it'll becomes more viable.

 

[the B]

Bollocks. We can't buy it because it's far too expensive, and no-one will buy it. When oil prices get high enough, it will be economic to produce hydrogen cars. I suspect hybrids will become very popular too if the current petrol prices stay for the long term

Depends on the source of hydrogen... those damn hydrocarbons happen to often be natural gas/oil

 

[tom k&e]

Depends on the source of hydrogen... those damn hydrocarbons happen to often be natural gas/oil

That too. I suspect if oil becomes expensive soon we'll end up using hydrogen powered vehicles, using hydrogen produced from coal. Coal resources will last for years, but of course produce fuckloads of CO2. Which is what we need nuclear power / fusion / orbital solar station for.

 

[Sorry.]

Huge? Because it eliminates your line of reasoning by getting rid of your starting point.

Given the historical trend for the cost of motoring to fall over time (absolute real terms and as a share of the weighted basket of goods) and that car manufacturers have far more considerations to make in their R&D programme, your point is just pants

It'll be a long time (and a single massive jump in fuel prices - not a gradual rise - which the market would turn into a single massive tise) before future oil prices lead to technologies that are massive sellers. The current trend in R&D away from Toyota and GM is towards improved safety, reliability and driver aids.

I must admit, I'm rather perplexed by all this. You're basically agreeing with me that transport costs won't go up, and that oil price hikes won't affect R&D priorities at car manufacturers.

My point of reasoning was dependent on any oil price rise causing inflation, not just ongoing ones.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

That's what breeder reactors are for.

Do you know of any that have proven useful for anything other than nuclear weapons proliferation?

 

[dumbo]

But, it is argued that a margin of the high oil price is actually lagged with the effects of the uncertainty in production resulting from hurricaine Katrina. Therefore, the government have earned extra taxes as a result in the rise in the price of oil which was unplanned and therefore, supurflous.

I like the idea of a couple of farmers being able to bring this pompous government to its knees. Don't care what the price of oil is though as long as it is relatively inexpensive.

Being Canadian, the farmers here haven't brought the government to their knees, eventhough taxes in the last two years have doubled twice. They need a break, and as for fuel prices, my uncle worked out West (in Canada) about 35 years ago. They hit 3 wells in one day, which was a little unusual, but instead of tapping and using them, they just capped them. Makes you sick. I believe every country should take care of their own first, then send any surplus wherever. If every country practised this, we'd all be better off.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

Thing is though, what happened here wasn't farmers bringing the government to its knees. It was fucking big oil companies wanting to be let off tax for the best years of North Sea oil. Basically they got to pump away and sell that oil for free, paying only corporation tax.

The farmers and truckers made the headlines, but what brought the government to its knees was the oil companies not sending out deliveries on the *excuse* of the farmers and truckers.

 

[Backatcha Bandit]

..wasn't farmers bringing the government to its knees. It was fucking big oil companies wanting to be let off tax for the best years of North Sea oil..

Indeed. Do you reckon the current murmurings may be driven by something similar?

 

[spring-peeper]

Being Canadian, the farmers here haven't brought the government to their knees, eventhough taxes in the last two years have doubled twice. They need a break, and as for fuel prices, my uncle worked out West (in Canada) about 35 years ago. They hit 3 wells in one day, which was a little unusual, but instead of tapping and using them, they just capped them. Makes you sick. I believe every country should take care of their own first, then send any surplus wherever. If every country practised this, we'd all be better off.

And what about the countries that don't have anything? Me, I like all those nice fruits and veggies that we get from the States. I'm betting that if we kept all our natural resources for ourselves, we wouldn't be getting all those nice fruits and veggies.

But, you can take solice in the fact that not sharing all of it. I know this person who knows someone who worked out west 35 years ago, and she told me...

 

[Velouria]

Being Canadian, the farmers here haven't brought the government to their knees, eventhough taxes in the last two years have doubled twice. They need a break, and as for fuel prices, my uncle worked out West (in Canada) about 35 years ago. They hit 3 wells in one day, which was a little unusual, but instead of tapping and using them, they just capped them. Makes you sick. I believe every country should take care of their own first, then send any surplus wherever. If every country practised this, we'd all be better off.

This happens a lot, the companies can't justify the costs of extraction with the current oil price, so they cap the wells and, when the oil price is high enough to make extraction viable, or to pay for the equipment/pipelines/people (and it takes about two to three years to organise all that for an offshore well...! surface wells are easier to deal with and have a shorter lead time), then the wellhead will be ordered, built, stuck on top, and they start sucking the oil out. Also sometimes the oil is of a quality that the equipment of the time can't deal with (too high pressure or too corrosive [crude oil can be several hundred degrees in temperature at 15 to 18,000 psi with water, sulphuric and hydrochloric acid, and sand &c mixed in]) and so they wait for advances in technology to make it practical to extract it. It's not quite as straightforward as just drilling the hole then pumping it out, especially as there are now stringent safety and environmental controls for the equipment... well, much more stringent than there were years ago, some would argue they aren't stringent enough).

It's also possible that the wells they drilled, while they hit oil, weren't the 'best' wells. Oil companies will sink several wells, and pick the one that can extract the most oil.

Drilling for oil is an expensive business...you're talking multiple millions... On the other hand, once you've got it all in place, a deep subsea well with good equipment will probably be making you 3/4 to a million dollars a day.

 

[exosculate]

An oil crisis is coming whatever happens. New finds are no longer matching reserves and where they are found they are not cheap to extract. Demand is also increasing despite efficiency of use gains. Result extreme spiking in the market. Result of this massive recession worldwide.

Watch those house prices drop then.

 

[coventrycityfan]

join the less tax on fuel website:
www.lesstaxonfuel.co.uk to discuss such issues

 

[zceb90]

Fuel Protests

An oil crisis is coming whatever happens. New finds are no longer matching reserves and where they are found they are not cheap to extract. Demand is also increasing despite efficiency of use gains. Result extreme spiking in the market. Result of this massive recession worldwide.

Watch those house prices drop then.

When riding the bus the other day en route to Offshore Europe 2005 (the 'oil show') I noted in the heavily congested streets that around 80% of vehicles had just a single occupant. Furthermore the more upmarket / powerful the vehicle (SUV's, powerful saloons and sports models etc) the higher the incidence of single occupancy. If the protesters really want to see cheaper fuel they need to bring about a sea change in the above habit....and persuade millions of their counterparts in US, China etc to do likewise.

Taxation apart high fuel prices = too many drivers chasing too little fuel. This (very long) thread should prove a most enlightening read: http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=45251

 

[Stobart Stopper]

There are queues at petrol stations around here, the local Jet garage up the road to me has run out of diesel. Tesco petrol station in Barkingside is really busy.

 

[tobyjug]

An oil crisis is coming whatever happens. .

It may have escaped people's notice but the oil crisis is already here. Not because of a lack of oil, but a lack of refining capacity.

 

[Stobart Stopper]

I still think people should be limited to the amount of fuel they buy at the moment.

 

[tobyjug]

I still think people should be limited to the amount of fuel they buy at the moment.

Given the current price and the lack of traffic on the M5 coming back home yesterday I think many people are alreading limiting themselves.
(It has certainly hit the local tourist trade)

 

[magneze]

BBC Breakfast did some nice scaremongering this morning, interviewing an independent petrol station manager who said that he would be running out in the next day or so.

They kinda glossed over the fact that the majority of petrol stations wouldn't have a problem.

 

[madzone]

(It has certainly hit the local tourist trade)

Wouldn't it be slowing right down now anyway?

 

[Stobart Stopper]

BBC Breakfast did some nice scaremongering this morning, interviewing an independent petrol station manager who said that he would be running out in the next day or so.

They kinda glossed over the fact that the majority of petrol stations wouldn't have a problem.

The only reason they are running out is because people are being greedy stupid cunts. There isn't going to be any problem with supplies to the pumps at all,so I have heard as the government passed new laws to allow the cops to stop any blockades using force if necessary. If idiots stopped panicking and bleeding the pumps dry there wouldn't be a problem. normal.

 

[moose]

It's bloody chaos round here now - I can see a massive queue trying to get into Tescos petrol station, and most smaller ones round here have run out due to panicking morons.

 

[magneze]

Yeah, but anyone who just caught the BBC Breakfast report and not much else will probably be filling up this morning. Nothing like a manufactured crisis eh?

 

[the B]

It may have escaped people's notice but the oil crisis is already here. Not because of a lack of oil, but a lack of refining capacity.

Quite a bit of both actually. In case you among others have failed to notice the reason for the price to rise for over a year.

 

[citydreams]

Interesting press release from the EU

As a result of spiralling oil prices, the Commission has convened for tomorrow, Friday 9 September, the Oil Supply Group which brings together oil experts from the national administrations of the twenty five Member States. The purpose of tomorrow’s meeting is to review the level of oil stocks in Europe, now estimated as being equivalent to 117 days’ consumption, and to coordinate the measures which the Member States need to take. “The recent upsurge in oil prices, which have reached record levels in absolute terms, is a growing source of concern for the EU’s economic prospects” explained Energy Commissioner Andris Piebalgs. “Only a coordinated response by all European countries will make it possible to produce effective solutions to a phenomenon which is likely to persist. The Member States must not yield to the temptation to offset the rise in oil prices by unilaterally reducing taxation."

Lastly, the Member States will be requested to communicate their plans of action to reduce consumption. European legislation[2] allows the Commission to set a target for reducing the consumption of petroleum products (by up to 10% of normal consumption).

http://europa.eu.int/rapid/pressRel...format=HTML&aged=0&language=EN&guiLanguage=en

 

[scott_forester]

Working at home is likely to become more and more common IMO.

Why the Government doesn't give firms tax breaks for anyone who spends more than 40% of their time working from home I don't know? It would give the tech sector a boast, drive down DSL prices, get people off the roads and improve the so-called work/life balance. It seems they'd rather tax people who fly keyboards on their way to the office.

 

[zenie]

Petrol Queue

Thought I'd go and get petrol tonight.

had to bloody queue for petrol and out of 8 pumps two weren't even working