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More Fuel Protests Threatened - Would they be justified?

Would more fuel protests be justified?

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magneze

magneze

🎧
Organisers of the 2000 fuel protest, which caused severe disruption when refineries were blocked, say they will act again if fuel tax is not cut.

Fuel Lobby made the announcement as the price of unleaded petrol rose to more than £1 a litre in parts of the UK as a result of Hurricane Katrina.

The group says all UK refineries will be blocked from 0600 BST on 14 September unless price cuts are made.

The Treasury said cutting tax would not solve the problem of high oil prices.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4221296.stm

Is this justified action? I'd say no. The dwindling stocks of oil mean that higher prices are here to stay and more efficient use of our resources is required - cutting fuel duty will not encourage this in any way.

(Poll to follow)
 
The Treasury I reckon. They're trying to put pressure on the government because it worked (albeit briefly) before.
 
But, it is argued that a margin of the high oil price is actually lagged with the effects of the uncertainty in production resulting from hurricaine Katrina. Therefore, the government have earned extra taxes as a result in the rise in the price of oil which was unplanned and therefore, supurflous.

I like the idea of a couple of farmers being able to bring this pompous government to its knees. Don't care what the price of oil is though as long as it is relatively inexpensive.
 
citydreams said:
Don't care what the price of oil is though as long as it is relatively inexpensive.
Click to expand...
So you do care! ;)

For me, this is a vision into the future ... higher fuel prices are here to stay, and I think it's only going to get worse.
 
Why haven't you voted Magneze? I voted yes because I thought you voted no then I realised you didn't vote at all! :mad:
 
There is a lead time of approx 6 weeks between getting the oil and it arriving at the pump. so why does the price rocket immediatley if it is not profiteering? Equally the treasury is profiting from the increased income from the extra tax earned. Cutting tax will not make oil cheaper, but it should make petrol cheaper at the pump, which is where I get my fuel. The oil companies are making huge profits, I don't see how a fuel tax cut would hurt them, but it might mean I can continue to buy their fuel.

I currently spend about £250 per month in fuel, this price rise is going to make it very expensive to continue going to work! Because of the nature of both my and Mrs D's jobs we are unable to use public transport. The alternative is to buy more fuel efficient cars, but I get an average 48.5mpg from my diesel, and I can't think of anything better.
 
Iemanja said:
Why haven't you voted Magneze? I voted yes because I thought you voted no then I realised you didn't vote at all! :mad:
Click to expand...
That's just an excuse! You're an environmental disaster! :mad: ;)
 
A lowering of duty wont change the price on the barrel of the oil but it will change the prices at the pump and that is what they are proposing action.

With something stupid like £8 per £10 of petrol being govt duty. ( well that was the figure that the AA batted about last time the fuel strikes were on so it will have changed now) there is enough of a buffer for the govt to lower the tax part of it.

However the only real way to get the pricing down is to lessen the demand for it. Something I think that is not going to happen in the immediate future. Cos as far as I can see OPEC have got the world by the balls. There are no real mass produced alternatives.( wether that is controlled by OPEC and the motor industryI dunno. But its seems pretty fucking dubious to me that in the last 100 years we have made progressive leaps and bounds in most areas yet the engine is basically the same as it was. You have to us carbon based fuel or it dont really run. Its seems to be a sort of a drip feed in this area. How long has it taken LPG to hit the pumps in most forecourts ? I recall LPG being used back in the 70's as my old man ran all his work vans on it when they wre building the M25. they wre running the machinery on site on it as it was cheaper and so he switched his over. There was alos the fuel crisis back then. So I make that what 30 years.

Chip fat oil and Biodeisel. Where the fuck is all that. Yeah theres a few forecourts dotted round the country but they mix it with DIESEL so thats no cheaper they just use the oil to water it down.

OPEC control the amount they produce hence they control the price per barrel. They also make all the money. There are also limited alternatives available.

Sounds pretty simple to me.
 
djbombscare said:
However the only real way to get the pricing down is to lessen the demand for it. Something I think that is not going to happen in the immediate future.
Click to expand...
Demand will lessen when the price reaches certain point. What needs to happen now is a serious look at efficiency. If anything, the government should offer more tax breaks for LPG or electric cars instead of lowering petrol & diesel taxes ...
 
citydreams said:
But, it is argued that a margin of the high oil price is actually lagged with the effects of the uncertainty in production resulting from hurricaine Katrina. Therefore, the government have earned extra taxes as a result in the rise in the price of oil which was unplanned and therefore, supurflous.
Click to expand...

Thought petrol tax was per unit - therefore, lower revenue.
 
silentNate said:
Must really hurt SUV owners where it hurts them most, their wallets :)
Click to expand...

I work next to Godolphin and Latymer (posh school, west London, knew a few people from there back in school days).

No obvious reduction in SUV traffic now that school has started! Was very obvious during the summer though!
 
dessiato said:
There is a lead time of approx 6 weeks between getting the oil and it arriving at the pump. so why does the price rocket immediatley if it is not profiteering?
Click to expand...

Because they have to buy for the 6 weeks in the future?

Spot and future prices... :p

Equally the treasury is profiting from the increased income from the extra tax earned.
Click to expand...

If petrol tax is per unit (rather than by value), no they're not. They lose tax revenue.

I currently spend about £250 per month in fuel, this price rise is going to make it very expensive to continue going to work! Because of the nature of both my and Mrs D's jobs we are unable to use public transport. The alternative is to buy more fuel efficient cars, but I get an average 48.5mpg from my diesel, and I can't think of anything better.
Click to expand...

Park closer to work and cycle some of the distance?
 
Magneze said:
Demand will lessen when the price reaches certain point. What needs to happen now is a serious look at efficiency. If anything, the government should offer more tax breaks for LPG or electric cars instead of lowering petrol & diesel taxes ...
Click to expand...

No no, you need to jack up the unleaded petrol tax (to start off with) so that people really get moving.
 
djbombscare said:
There are no real mass produced alternatives.( wether that is controlled by OPEC and the motor industryI dunno.
Click to expand...

The car & oil companies have a history of buying-up & burying any technology that might threaten their core buisnesses. They are sitting on quite a few potentially viable alternatives but look unlikley to restart development until it suits them. :(
 
the B said:
No no, you need to jack up the unleaded petrol tax (to start off with) so that people really get moving.
Click to expand...
How about giving us some public transport as well then, please. I can't drive but am going to have to learn if I want to to get a job here in Norfolk because it is impossible without a car - the last bus to the village passes through at 2:30 in the afternoon! People have to drive here, and I'm sure it's the same elsewhere.
 
dormouse said:
How about giving us some public transport as well then, please. I can't drive but am going to have to learn if I want to to get a job here in Norfolk because it is impossible without a car - the last bus to the village passes through at 2:30 in the afternoon! People have to drive here, and I'm sure it's the same elsewhere.
Click to expand...

Sur ton velo?

But really, public transport improvements would be great.

Still, I have limited sympathy or empathy for many private motorists. Market price ought to account for the many glaringly obvious externalities...
 
the B said:
Thought petrol tax was per unit - therefore, lower revenue.
Click to expand...

only if significantly less petrol is being bought as a result of the price change

*draws the b a 1st year demand and supply graph*

*changes batteries in the B's calculator*

the govnt admitted it was getting more revenue the last time this happened (5 years ago :eek:).
 
citydreams said:
only if significantly less petrol is being bought as a result of the price change

*draws the b a 1st year demand and supply graph*

*changes batteries in the B's calculator*

the govnt admitted it was getting more revenue the last time this happened (5 years ago :eek:).
Click to expand...

You're doing a different thing to me here.

I'm looking at now only with cross-sectional analysis of the present and you're doing a freaking analysis over time!

*shakes head*


As you know, when tax is per unit, ie. tax = x per litre, recent price increases with a downward sloping demand curve indicate that tax revenue falls since quantity purchased falls.

The price increase being an exogenous shock due to Katrina. Not talking about previous protest to now.
 
Magneze said:
Demand will lessen when the price reaches certain point. What needs to happen now is a serious look at efficiency. If anything, the government should offer more tax breaks for LPG or electric cars instead of lowering petrol & diesel taxes ...
Click to expand...


Totally agree.


From what i had heard just before Katrina. They were saying that it was looking like what happened in the 70's and that this was not a permant state. And that what would happen would be that people will switch away from carbon fuels. I'd also heard that demand would now decrease as the US holiday period is now over. However I dunno how long the US holiday period is but this has been going on longer than this summer.

So I dont think theres anything in either of those. What I think needs to happen is to decrease demand by having viable alternative fuels and perhaps like I've said on other threads. implement work from home initiatives and other ways to get transportation off the roads.

Personally I want cheaper fuel because its means I have to spend less.

I have to travel a 100 mile per day to get to and from work, that makes a good £300 a month out of my wages is spent on petrol. I would love to work from home. I can do my job from home just as easilly as I can from the office. Thing is they wont let me for no reason at all other than they want their employees in the office. Theres no viable public transport option either So if I want to earn semi-decent money I have to travel, move, or take a £7000 a year job in the town where I live. So I have to pay what ever price it is if I want to work and put up with it
 
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