More false flag ideas from Cheney to provoke Iran

[fela fan]

Good, lets have an unclear disagreement then

But seriously, Im just joining in the conversation, stating my opinions, with some of my points growing from my interpretation of what other people have written.

We're all entitled to our opinions. Its when our existing beliefs about a subject are allowed to cloud discussions about the possible facts of a specific event, that you will find me gibbering on in threads like these.

If we were all a good deal less certain of how right we are, these threads would go in totally different direction, but I know thats not gonna happen. Conflict will prevail, oh well

Nothing matters mate. It cannot, we don't get no evidence.

Incidentally, my job requires me to be a critical reader and thinker by default. This is the main reason why i have no disagreement with what you're saying, but i did wonder for a minute how comfortable that fence you're sitting on was...!

 

[fela fan]

Seeing as you've just ignored the same question for two posts in a row, I'll try again. When was the last time you were in America?

I ignored it because it is just so irrelevant to anything. But since you insist, 89.

 

[editor]

I ignored it because it is just so irrelevant to anything. But since you insist, 89.

So your "instinct" about America is based on visiting the place nearly twenty years ago, while continuing to ignore the majority of its news media and instead listening to the wafflings of the relatively microscopic percentage of Americans who happen to be in a bar near you?

Have I got that right?

 

[fela fan]

So your "instinct" about America is based on visiting the place nearly twenty years ago, while continuing to ignore the majority of its news media and instead listening to the wafflings of the relatively microscopic percentage of Americans who happen to be in a bar near you?

Have I got that right?

No you haven't. You've got it totally wrong. But that's simply because you can't (or won't) read properly.

Your writing is absolutely littered with assumptions, 100% wrong too.

Like i said, you're unbelievable at times.

I read enough news media, but none of it from the western propaganda sheets. But who would expect to discover the real USA from western newspapers? You? You gotta be joking.

 

[Darios]

Seeing as you've just ignored the same question for two posts in a row, I'll try again. When was the last time you were in America to "meet American people"?

You've been pretty good at ignoring mine yourself.

 

[elbows]

but i did wonder for a minute how comfortable that fence you're sitting on was...!

Its not very comfortable but the view is great.

 

[fela fan]

Its not very comfortable but the view is great.

Which side...? Or can't you decide...!

 

[editor]

You've been pretty good at ignoring mine yourself.

Sorry, which vital points have I failed to answer?

I read enough news media, but none of it from the western propaganda sheets. But who would expect to discover the real USA from western newspapers? You? You gotta be joking.

Right. So 'real' Americans and activists - you know the people that actually live there - who choose to read a wide variety of American news and media aren't as well informed as you about the "real USA"?

Breathtaking arrogance.

 

[fela fan]

Sorry, which vital points have I failed to answer?
Right. So 'real' Americans and activists - you know the people that actually live there - who choose to read a wide variety of American news and media aren't as well informed as you about the "real USA"?

Breathtaking arrogance.

You're the breathtaking person. I can't believe you're for real, making all this stuff up and presenting it as reality. You haven't failed to answer any points, you have simply failed to read properly. But you've always had a reading problem in my experience on this website.

So far in our exchanges today, you've put me down for arrogance, self-delusion, ignoring your questions, myopic, and so on.

And you won't stop banging on about the bloody media. I'm more informed about the actions of USGs than a huge majority of american people.

And, it seems, you. Especially if you feel informed by american news media. Fucking propaganda bullshit most of it. I do read some actually, come to think of it, but it's from stuff like gemini news agency and one or two others that i forget the name of right now.

I also get a lot of my instincts from reading commondreams.

But most of it comes from books. But you failed miserably on that score. You need to develop some better readings kills.

 

[editor]

I'm more informed about the actions of USGs than a huge majority of american people.

Could you put a figure on this "huge majority"? 90%? 95%? 99.9%?

And how exactly are you quantifying your claim of superior knowledge over tens of millions of people?

You haven't set foot in America for nearly twenty years, you've already said that you "barely" read any newspapers and you don't watch US TV news and current affairs programs, so how are you so sure of your intellectually elevated position over most Americans when it comes to knowing about their own country?

 

[fela fan]

Could you put a figure on this "huge majority"? 90%? 95%? 99.9%?

And how exactly are you quantifying your claim of superior knowledge over tens of millions of people?

You haven't set foot in America for nearly twenty years, you've already said that you "barely" read any newspapers and you don't watch US TV news and current affairs programs, so how are you so sure of your intellectually elevated position over most Americans when it comes to knowing about their own country?

Funny how you were earlier suggesting a poster was being naive, because with these questions of yours you are displaying great naivety yourself.

And here you just go again, twisting words around and pretending that's what somebody said. I didn't 'claim' 'superior knowledge' over anybody, and nor did i 'intellectually elevate' myself. I said i was better informed.

And it's absolutely irrelevant for me to say why this could be so. You either accept what i say or disbelieve it. Up to you.

You display all the hallmarks of a politician, using language and twisting it around and hiding behind it.

 

[editor]

I didn't 'claim' 'superior knowledge' over anybody, and nor did i 'intellectually elevate' myself. I said i was better informed.

"I'm more informed about the actions of USGs than a huge majority of american people."

Self-pwned by your own arrogant words! Stay-away fela knows more about what the America government gets up to than tens of millions of its own citizens because, err, he says so.

 

[fela fan]

"I'm more informed about the actions of USGs than a huge majority of american people."

Self-pwned by your own arrogant words! Stay-away fela knows more about what the America government gets up to than tens of millions of its own citizens because, err, he says so.

So you are equating 'more informed' with 'superior knowledge' and deriving the same meaning out of both. This is a very shaky interpretation of yours.

I think you'd be naive in the extreme to suppose one can learn more about USGs and their actions/crimes from US media compared to that written about in books, all carefully annotated with sources for their writing.

Let's not forget, just for one example, us being told by the american media that a majority of american people believed all those lies from their government over saddam hussein.

Yes, i know more about the machinations of the USGs than tens of millions of its own citizens. Many on this forum do, but i suspect my crime in your eyes is that i'm actually saying this. Oh well, tough. It's all in context.

 

[butchersapron]

Have you ever thought about taking english lessons fela?

 

[Barking_Mad]

Anyhow, im sure the US public are reeling from this revelation and the press are demanding to know why their government want to start a war by coming up with ideas such as this. Or maybe not.

I wonder what the acceptable alternatives were?

 

[Darios]

Sorry, which vital points have I failed to answer?

Heh.

You said:

all the evidence appears to point to the position you sneered at - "the lone nut"

"ALL the evidence" eh? It looks like you didn't bother looking very far given the enormous number of questions that have been raised; and not just over the official narrative being constructed before our very eyes. In fact I'd wager you only read the article you linked above and little else.

There's the contrary viewpoints put forward by friends and colleagues, the previous bang up smear job on Hatfill - also helped along by the media, the testimony of his "therapist" - Duley - isn't actually his therapist. All this information was available when you made the above pronouncement from on high, based on "all the evidence". Pffftt....

And then we get to the critical point: That we have proof positive of an internal, involving USgov employees, conspiracy to lie obscenely and contribute directly to us going off the rails to attack Iraq.

As Raimondo concludes:

You'll note I use the plural, perpetrators: it is almost inconceivable that a single person could have been responsible for the anthrax terror. Logistically, it's near to impossible to imagine that a single "lone nut" could have produced the anthrax, let alone distributed it, without being caught. Did he travel all the way to New Jersey, of all places, just to mail these deadly missives, after single-handedly whipping up a substance that required all sorts of advanced equipment (and safety precautions) to prepare? It hardly seems likely.

Which means that, even if Ivins was in on the plot, he wasn't alone – and the rest of the poisoners are still out there.

And yet you have the cheek to sit there and lecture people about how "naive" they are for not supposing that the government does all these nasty things. Of course when people start looking at instances where it appears highly likely the govt has dunnit, you're just as quick to write them off.

Sometimes it's really difficult to tell the difference between "moderator" and "troll" around these parts.

 

[fela fan]

Have you ever thought about taking english lessons fela?

why would that be butchers? Funny question though coming from you since your posts are frequently littered with spelling errors and typos.

Now, unload that heavy sarcasm from your shoulders, or does it sit well there?

 

[fela fan]

darios, his is a fixed agenda, a fixed view. Politics always is.

 

[editor]

"ALL the evidence" eh? "

You missed out the word "all the evidence appears to point...."

Funny that, isn't it?

 

[Darios]

You missed out the word "all the evidence appears to point...."

Funny that, isn't it?

The point remains: you hadn't actually looked.

 

[editor]

The point remains: you hadn't actually looked.

Ah, so now you're adding projection to your earlier dishonest selective quoting, Nice work!

 

[Darios]

Ah, so now you're adding projection to your earlier dishonest selective quoting, Nice work!

Very risque to claim "projection" oh infallible one.

Jesus wept man. You really are troll like sometimes. You said previously that all the evidence appears to point to the lone nut theory. This is despite plenty of evidence being available at the time (i.e. two days ago) to the contrary. You can't claim "all the evidence appears to say...." when you've, at best, just given the matter a cursory examination.

No wonder this place is such a regular shitpit of cyncism, bitterness and pointless bickering. Following the lead from the front.

 

[fela fan]

Ah, so now you're adding projection to your earlier dishonest selective quoting, Nice work!

But what about all your dishonest twisting of my words and projecting your own faulty interpretations onto me as if it's what i said?

 

[Barking_Mad]

Ah, so now you're adding projection to your earlier dishonest selective quoting, Nice work!

Why dont you take a piece of your own often handed out advice and stop derailing the thread? You've added absolutey nothing to this thread.

 

[MikeMcc]

As shown by the downing street memos. Also there was the case of the British inteliigence people arrested in Basra, driving round with bombs in the car DRESSED AS ARABS at a time when there were loads of attacks.

The legal procedures of "Sovereign" Iraq against these people came to an abrubt end when the British broke them out of jail WITH A TANK.

Nothing suspicious about that.

Though these cases are certainly a different league from 911 they demonstrate basic precedence where too many people would deny or be ignorant of history.

Don't let facts get in the way of a good story there. The SAS guys had a fairly standard kit-out. For them that includes some PE4 and detonators, it also included light anti-tank rockets, a minimi machine gun and their rifles, hardly deniable kit. The guys were handed over my corrupt police officers to some of the local militia. They were broken out using a Warrior vehicle, which is NOT a tank, the present tank in British service is the Challenger 2.

ETA: Why stress the 'DRESSED AS ARABS', how do you suppose they would do a covert surveillence task?