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ice-is-forming said:
I wish, but its true, I've seen the emails, bank statement and the cash :facepalm:

She has nothing to lose, well her identity i suppose but she has no license or passport and has no money so I'm just really surprised to see that they paid in $2500. She's opening the new bank account so that the 'money launderers" can't access her measly $150 a fortnight benefit. I hope it doesn't turn shit for her as she's had a hell of a life and has only been here a few years after a life time of running from a violent ex.
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Everyone has something to lose, whether it's liberty, health or life. I sincerely hope she's ok & gets away with it. Not sure I'd risk the wrath of Ukranian gangsters. One would assume they'd have contingency plans for this sort of thing....:(
 
I thought this was the scam where the 2.5k doesn’t actually exist, in the sense that the bank will make the money available to her before it actually clears. Then the cheque bounces and the scamee has actually just overdrafted themselves to the tune of 2.5k.

How quickly did all this happen? The scammers probably wanted it to be transferred immediately, before it had time to bounce...As it is icey’s mate just excavated 2.5k out of a 2.5k shaped hole, and owes for the hole.
 
ice-is-forming said:
...She has nothing to lose,
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i fear she may soon discover the inaccuracy of this statement. Ukrainian gangsters are known to use chisels and large hammers to collect debts. i'm not sure what fingers and toes fetch on the open market, but they seem to enjoy them...

the almost intelligent thing for her to do would be to close her bank account, delete all her social media and emails, move (a long way - do you think she might like Broome?), use different names and generally just hide under a rock for the rest of her life.

the actually intelligent thing would be to print off the thing from the Aussie government, walk into her local police station and tell all.
 
existentialist said:
It could all come to nothing. I guess there are inept Ukrainian criminals who miss out some important step in making sure their marks don't rip THEM off. But I think she's right to switch the bank account - although I note that all the talk is of opening a new one, which is good, but I think she should also be closing the old one.

I also think she should be putting her old email address beyond use, and reviewing very carefully what other information these people might have about her that could pose problems in future. At the very least, I imagine she's going to get some fairly bloodcurdling threats - I got enough of those just for tweaking the noses of Nigerian 419ers.
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Hopefully nothing will come of it but, IME people rarely get given $2500 for absolutely nothing. If I were CtB's mate I'd do everything you suggest above but also do my very best to get the money together asap, send it to wherever the fuck it was supposed to go, and keep my fingers crossed.
 
kebabking said:
i fear she may soon discover the inaccuracy of this statement. Ukrainian gangsters are known to use chisels and large hammers to collect debts. i'm not sure what fingers and toes fetch on the open market, but they seem to enjoy them...

the almost intelligent thing for her to do would be to close her bank account, delete all her social media and emails, move (a long way - do you think she might like Broome?), use different names and generally just hide under a rock for the rest of her life.

the actually intelligent thing would be to print off the thing from the Aussie government, walk into her local police station and tell all.
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Yes, I was wondering about the merits of the "'fess up and throw herself on the mercy of the State" option...
 
ice-is-forming are you working supporting this person? Just be careful that in knowing the situation you do not get in trouble for colluding and not contacting the relevant authorities.
When I was doing support work with a similar demographic to you, we were told that as support workers we would get in to serious trouble for colluding. My solution to this was that when I heard something that was harmless but illegal and might possibly benefit my client short term but involved a risk to them. I would support them in making an informed choice. However I also told them that I would deny knowing anything. Unless it was a child or vulnerable adults protection issue.
Is this the case for you?
 
kalidarkone said:
ice-is-forming are you working supporting this person? Just be careful that in knowing the situation you do not get in trouble for colluding and not contacting the relevant authorities.
When I was doing support work with a similar demographic to you, we were told that as support workers we would get in to serious trouble for colluding. My solution to this was that when I heard something that was harmless but illegal and might possibly benefit my client short term but involved a risk to them. I would support them in making an informed choice. However I also told them that I would deny knowing anything. Unless it was a child or vulnerable adults protection issue.
Is this the case for you?
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No, it's someone I exited almost a year ago. I have no duty of care, other than as a citizen.

They're aren't a vulnerable person in the legal sense, but they've been poor for so long that they are willing to throw caution to the wind to have a bit of spending money and catch up with their rent and bills. She's been naive but she doesn't even know where the Ukraine is, let alone the reputation of their criminals.

She got the money in her account Monday, took it out Tuesday and tbh I imagine she may have perhaps $500 max left now and that'll burn a hole in her pocket by the weekend.

I've sent her that link to the government warning. If it comes on top from the justice side of things she'll cry that she found the job position on a government approved job website, whilst forfilling her mandatory mutual obligations.

If it comes on top in a different sort of way...well I don't know, but I'm sure I'll hear about it. There's not many people here from eastern europe, I imagine it'd probably cost a couple of grand to get someone here to visit her. And what then? They can't exactly make an example of her and it'd just be about vengeance..for 2.5k and a lot of inconvenience to get here? I'm unsure whether this will be let go as a business loss or what....

Ho humm.
 
ice-is-forming said:
She's been naive...
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To put it politely...

5t3IIa said:
I thought this was the scam where the 2.5k doesn’t actually exist, in the sense that the bank will make the money available to her before it actually clears. Then the cheque bounces and the scamee has actually just overdrafted themselves to the tune of 2.5k.

How quickly did all this happen? The scammers probably wanted it to be transferred immediately, before it had time to bounce...As it is icey’s mate just excavated 2.5k out of a 2.5k shaped hole, and owes for the hole.
Click to expand...

Thinking about this, this seems the most likely to me. If it is the case then she's just debted herself up big time which is bad but not losing your fingers bad. She may get lucky and the bank may write it off as fraud I still suspect she has been knowingly complicit in the fraud though so plod may want a word.

Basically either she thought it was legit and knowingly stole the money from Ukrainians or knew it was a scam and was complicit. Either way its hard to see her walking away from this without some come back.
 
5t3IIa said:
I thought this was the scam where the 2.5k doesn’t actually exist, in the sense that the bank will make the money available to her before it actually clears. Then the cheque bounces and the scamee has actually just overdrafted themselves to the tune of 2.5k.

How quickly did all this happen? The scammers probably wanted it to be transferred immediately, before it had time to bounce...As it is icey’s mate just excavated 2.5k out of a 2.5k shaped hole, and owes for the hole.
Click to expand...
So if that's how the scam works then the Ukrainian's have not technically lost any money so I think we can rule out the Heavy Mob turning up. Which is one thing. It's a just a matter of whether the authors/banks catch on and do anything about it now. I find them a little less scary!
 
Mrs Miggins said:
So if that's how the scam works then the Ukrainian's have not technically lost any money so I think we can rule out the Heavy Mob turning up. Which is one thing. It's a just a matter of whether the authors/banks catch on and do anything about it now. I find them a little less scary!
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Says the person who's never gone toe to toe with Howard from the Halifax adds.
 
Teaboy said:
To put it politely...



Thinking about this, this seems the most likely to me. If it is the case then she's just debted herself up big time which is bad but not losing your fingers bad. She may get lucky and the bank may write it off as fraud I still suspect she has been knowingly complicit in the fraud though so plod may want a word.

Basically either she thought it was legit and knowingly stole the money from Ukrainians or knew it was a scam and was complicit. Either way its hard to see her walking away from this without some come back.
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No, it was deposited into her account, no cheques involved. Even if it had been a cheque it would have to have cleared first for her to withdraw it all.
 
the chances were the funds did not come from the Ukraine in the first place- there are anti money laundering check in place globally to halt incoming funds from a blacklist of countries- they usually ask for remitter and beneficiary details and the purpose of the funds transfer before releasing it- i assume she didnt get any calls from her bank about this ? its standard practice these days. Moneygram & other direct to account transfer systems are also used, but if a blacklisted country appears anywhere in the order, it should ( theoretically) be stopped

Secondly, its a PITA to get money back once it has been transferred - the beneficiary needs to agree to release and the requester agree to an indemity before anyone will touch it - unless is supported a court order, and that isnt going to be likely for a relatively small amount .If it is the original defrauded person doing this, they will face the same brick wall when trying to get the cash back

These are connected with crime ( obvs) but its rarely comes to a F2F confrontation as they pump many transfers through the system and must accept a loss as basic risk management caveat- it isnt their money after all, but usually part of a layered process to mix it up, with the nominal being split into small tranches to avert too much suspicion.they work on anonimity and I would not be worried about a few grand leading to anything bad apart from a few threats.

the only real issue is if the local plod are engaged as part of a wider investigation and can do something in her country. The coppery dont have a massive horn on to snare dupes like this- money laundering is a potential life sentence for the big boys - I have never come across a patsy being done by the filth on this , whether they moved the money on or spunked it.Sadly, someone, soemwhere will have had his accounts ransacked at the start of this process



(* not legal advice*
She could reply back to an email and say they bank is holding the money as it is suspected laundered funds and she need personal details from them to to provide to the authorities to release it- she is unlikely to hear from them again or get any further offers)


hopefully none of this is duplicated in earlier posts
 
But why would people just send money to a stranger?? Surely they’ve no hope of ever getting it back? I don’t understand.
 
moomoo said:
But why would people just send money to a stranger?? Surely they’ve no hope of ever getting it back? I don’t understand.
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Perhaps the idea is to forge an ongoing relationship, to find someone who will facilitate money laundering on a regular basis in return for a cut of the action.
 
It is a relationship that has a very limited lifespan and they need fresh meat to keep the process moving. Never underestimate the capacity for people to ignore the obvious. Most people are relatively honest in the wealthier countries
 
moomoo said:
But why would people just send money to a stranger?? Surely they’ve no hope of ever getting it back? I don’t understand.
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They need somebody to send them the proceeds of bank fraud or some other crime in a way that's hard to trace - I think the targets are led to believe that there will be a steady stream of payments to make and they'll get commission from each one, though apparently in practice they don't tend to use the same person too many times.
 
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