Udo Erasmus
Well-Known Member
The new mines attracted some interest before, might find this article interesting:
http://www.monbiot.com/archives/2007/10/09/the-new-coal-age/
http://www.monbiot.com/archives/2007/10/09/the-new-coal-age/
Monbiot on new welsh coal mine
- Thread starter Udo Erasmus
- Start date
I read it in the Grauniad the other day and I'm glad Opencasting (or strip mining as it should be called) is getting some attention.
Not many people realise that this country still mines large amounts of coal, but through this hugely destructive method rather than traditional mining. If you've never seen an opencast its an astonishing site.
I'm from the Dulais Valley (next to the Neath Valley mentioned in the article) and they've ripped the mountains part doing this - they infill and grass over afterwards but its never the same as it was before. And of course they employ hardly any new jobs for local people.
Not many people realise that this country still mines large amounts of coal, but through this hugely destructive method rather than traditional mining. If you've never seen an opencast its an astonishing site.
I'm from the Dulais Valley (next to the Neath Valley mentioned in the article) and they've ripped the mountains part doing this - they infill and grass over afterwards but its never the same as it was before. And of course they employ hardly any new jobs for local people.
One of the reasons it's never the same is that they pump out so much groundwater to get at the coal, which often makes the surrounding area completely arid.
My partner's from an area of East germany where this has happened - used to be wet and marshy - now the area for miles around has soil like sand. Bastards.
Have a look at this map of her area: the white and pink's active mines and the dark blue/black area are mines that the've re-filled with water after emptying them. They destroyed whole villages to get to the shit as well. Check out the scale in bottom left for an idea of how big they get:
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&time=&date=&ttype=&q=drebkau&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=30.406222,59.765625&ie=UTF8&ll=51.628248,14.389343&spn=0.743371,1.867676&t=k&z=9&om=1
My partner's from an area of East germany where this has happened - used to be wet and marshy - now the area for miles around has soil like sand. Bastards.
Have a look at this map of her area: the white and pink's active mines and the dark blue/black area are mines that the've re-filled with water after emptying them. They destroyed whole villages to get to the shit as well. Check out the scale in bottom left for an idea of how big they get:
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&time=&date=&ttype=&q=drebkau&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=30.406222,59.765625&ie=UTF8&ll=51.628248,14.389343&spn=0.743371,1.867676&t=k&z=9&om=1
Udo Erasmus
Well-Known Member
Monbiot now lives in Wales, in case your wondering why he keeps on writing stuff about here.
Don't want to sound like an ignoramus (coal is not my speciality!), but are these opencast mines the same ones as the new coal pits being re-opened that have been talked about?
Don't want to sound like an ignoramus (coal is not my speciality!), but are these opencast mines the same ones as the new coal pits being re-opened that have been talked about?
Udo Erasmus said:
No, Open Cast is strip-mining - they dig a vast crater in the ground to get at the coal - it was introduced as an emergency measure in WW2 I believe.
The Pits they've been talking about reopening (one in the Neath Valley I believe) are proper mines.
If you haven't ever seen an opencast its worth going to take a look, its an astonishing sight.
lewislewis
Lumumba Cymru
It amazes me that emergency measures are now considered the norm. It's far more destructive than deep mining.
The UK government has forced this scheme through, but the Assembly government stood by and allowed it to happen- and even assisted the developers.
In Scotland all opencast developments must have a 500m buffer zone to the next human habitation. Unfortunately there is no such rule in Wales and although there are now proposals to bring one in, it'll be too late for Ffos-y-fran.
I didn't know Monbiot had moved to Wales. He is of course a middle-class 'Green left' peculiarity, let's see whether he integrates into local life. Where abouts does the guy reside?
The UK government has forced this scheme through, but the Assembly government stood by and allowed it to happen- and even assisted the developers.
In Scotland all opencast developments must have a 500m buffer zone to the next human habitation. Unfortunately there is no such rule in Wales and although there are now proposals to bring one in, it'll be too late for Ffos-y-fran.
I didn't know Monbiot had moved to Wales. He is of course a middle-class 'Green left' peculiarity, let's see whether he integrates into local life. Where abouts does the guy reside?
Udo Erasmus
Well-Known Member
His father was Chair of the Tories, you know.
He lives in Machynlleth (or however you spell it!) apparently, I hear he is hitched to a Welsh woman.
I don't think you're being fair on Monbiot, I think he gets more on the ball as time goes on and definitely one of the sharpest writers on cliamte chaos
His book, "Heat - How to Stop the Planet Burning" is one of the best in the field, in my opinion, and what is refreshing is that rather than focusing on individual lifestyle change he talks in terms of very concrete government policies and demands on the state,
He lives in Machynlleth (or however you spell it!) apparently, I hear he is hitched to a Welsh woman.
I don't think you're being fair on Monbiot, I think he gets more on the ball as time goes on and definitely one of the sharpest writers on cliamte chaos
His book, "Heat - How to Stop the Planet Burning" is one of the best in the field, in my opinion, and what is refreshing is that rather than focusing on individual lifestyle change he talks in terms of very concrete government policies and demands on the state,
I agree that opencasting is very bad for the local landscape. However where Moniobot and I part company is the 'coal is bad' argument.
To me the important issue isn't the vague, woolly science of "the world might get 0.x degrees warmer in 50-100 years but we just don't know", but the cold, hard certainty that we *are* running out of oil. Now.
We have to do something, and in the short to medium term that's gonna mean coal.
To me the important issue isn't the vague, woolly science of "the world might get 0.x degrees warmer in 50-100 years but we just don't know", but the cold, hard certainty that we *are* running out of oil. Now.
We have to do something, and in the short to medium term that's gonna mean coal.
