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mofo gaming machine

Pingu

Credo
ok my gaming machine is suffering
its a pretty good PC but its just not cutting the mustard. I am restriced on the graphics card as its an agp board.

normally i would just buy componants and build it but I found myself loking at buying an off the shelf "games ninja"...


dont worry I didnt - sense overrode my lazyness

but

i am abit out of touch with modern hardware when it comes to whats cutting edge.


so recomend me a mofo machine


Total budget is about £1500

dont need:
Monitor (have 20 inch lcd)
sound card
operating system
keyboard and mouse

I prefer AMD to intel but am not a zealot so will go intel if its better.

main games are fps and in particular CSS
 
Mwahahahahah....

You want a system for gaming, gaming and nothing but gaming? Are you going to be overclocking either the CPU or graphics card?

Basic overclocking build:

Opteron 165 or AMD 3800X2
A8R32 Crossfire motherboard
2GB DDR400 RAM
X1900XT graphics card
X1900 crossfire controler card
250GB WD caviar HD, possibly a raptor as a boot disc or a larger and faster single drive
600W PSU (I like seasonic s12s, but other good options include the enermax liberty 620W, a very nice PSU and a bit cheaper, budget options are availible upon request)
Case, is up to you, lian li make very nice cases but they cost a lot. Think about the antec P180.

That is the highest end graphics system there is at the moment, not even the quad SLI can beat it for gaming performance. There are some downsides, you'll be right at the top of your budget, the system will not be quiet when you're gaming, there is no soundcard included in that price and it will generate so much heat you won't belive, but for oblivion that's as good as it gets.

Or do the build above, but with a 500W PSU, a SLI motherboard (A8N32 is nice) and 2x7900GTs, a fair bit cheaper, still at the very high end, but you will save enough to get a sound card too if you want one. Note! This is a complete waste of money, i have a single 7800GT and it's still capable of running any game other than oblivion in high or ultra high quality settings.
 
Bob_the_lost said:
Mwahahahahah....

You want a system for gaming, gaming and nothing but gaming? Are you going to be overclocking either the CPU or graphics card?


yup gaming gaming and more gaming - in particular FPS like counterstrike source. BUT... I also like my RTS games.

not really interested in overclocking tbh (i grew up in the days when overclocking sometimes meant melting bits of your computer and have shied away ever since)

i have a soundcard (creative 7.1 card) that wil xfer from the old machine. is there any advantage to be gained from the 2 7900s for FPS's (where frame rate is quite important)?
 
Yes, if you so SLI then you will either get higher frame rates, or it lets you turn on more eyecandy while keeping the framerate high. Ignoring the rest of the computer this is the order of graphics processing power:

7900GT - £220
X1800XT - £220
X1900XT - £330
7900GTX / X1900XTX (equal) £370
7900GT SLI - £440
7900GTX SLI - £760
X1900XT crossfire - £ 700

Any of these counts as high end gaming, but after the GT SLI option it starts getting silly. The 7900GT option is one of the rare cases where buying SLI makes sense. Check out this review of the 7900 core http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2717&p=6 to see what sort of benifits you get from each system. Remember that the graphics settings they are using there are very high.

Assuming you're going for either a X1900XTX or a 7900GTX or the 7900GT SLI for the meantime and as such you've got 1K to spend on the rest of the system.

CPU- I'd go for the 4200X2 for the CPU, costs £240. While dual core doesn't make much difference at all at the moment for gaming it's nice to have and the 4000 is only £20 less.

RAM -Rather irrelevant, PC 3200 CAS 2 RAM from a good manufacturer, crucial, kingston, OCZ, Gskillz etc. The performance differnece of low latency RAM over the ultra cheap stuff is small, only a few %, but you're buying high end so what do you expect ;) Should cost around £150.

Motherboard - If you're not overclocking any Asus/Abit/Other good name motherboard should be alright. If you're not buying SLI then don't get a SLI board, as an upgrade path it's a bad plan. £60-£150

Graphics < £500

Case - Antec P180 (as an example), £85, it's designed for high end computers either with excellent cooling, or with ok cooling and very low noise. If you don't like the look of it or find another one you like more then there's no reason why not.

PSU - Enermax liberty £75 Modular, quiet, a very nice PSU by all accounts, enough to run SLI on, and a lot more. Other options are around for around the same price. If you find a cheaper one you like the look of stick up a link.

Hard drives - Depends,
If you want the fastest of fast then the raptor 150 is it, no questions asked. 150GB for £200
If you want a better value hard drive that is very fast, and yet has a decent amount of storage then the WD 4000KD is hard to beat 400GB for £144
If you're not that fussed about how long your map loads are and don't need that much room then a 250GB drive is the best bang for buck, Seagate have a 5 year warranty, WD and hitachi are both very fast, Samsung is quiet and maxtor is very cheap. £70-£200

Sound card - Your old creative one isn't a good option in all likely hood, unless it's an audigy 2 or better then i wouldn't bother with it over onboard. If you do want a good sound card then the XFI range is pretty much it, or if you want a cheaper option then the audigy 2ZS is great value for money, i got the platinum external one with a break out box for less than the cost of an XFI. £0-£80

£680 - £980 plus graphics cards.

There, that's as good as it gets. Assuming you've got a 1600x1200 monitor then i don't think that the £500 limit to the graphics cards will be a handicap.
 
Mate just bought
AMD X2 4800+
Asus Crossfire motherboard
Asus XT1900XTX Graphics card
2 Gig of Motherboard compatible memory
2x74Gig Raptors
DVD Writer
Very Nice Lian-Li Case
Zalman cooler
Tagen 520w Modular psu

All in cost about 1700 in that competitive shop off TCR so you could source it a tad cheaper if you hunt about.

This is about as high end as it gets unless you go for 2x dual 7900gt cards and dual 150gb raptors
 
RAID0 is not proven to improve gaming performance, the storage review writeup on the benifits of RAID0 against getting a single hard drive was in summary: Don't bother, just get a single faster HD.
 
The newer WD drives are very quick indeed, the WD4000KD is only a few % slower than a Raptor 74, but nothing is close to a raptor 150 untill you go for SCSI. The SATAII interface is rather irrelevant though, raptors are all SATA.
 
lobster said:
Is he not better getting ddr2 ram? and how can sata2 be irrelevant ?
Think of SATA as a 3 lane motorway, SATA II is a 6 lane motorway. If you don't have enough traffic on the 3 lane motorway to make it congested then adding another 2 lanes won't speed anything up. There are advantages to it, but none for home users.

DDR2 is not availible for AMD at the moment, it's not compatible with the motherboards nor can it be because of the on die memory controller. If Pingu waits for AM2 or conroe then that'll change, but AM2 isn't much of an improvement and conroe is at least 3 months away.
 
Bob_the_lost said:
Think of SATA as a 3 lane motorway, SATA II is a 6 lane motorway. If you don't have enough traffic on the 3 lane motorway to make it congested then adding another 2 lanes won't speed anything up. There are advantages to it, but none for home users.

DDR2 is not availible for AMD at the moment, it's not compatible with the motherboards nor can it be because of the on die memory controller. If Pingu waits for AM2 or conroe then that'll change, but AM2 isn't much of an improvement and conroe is at least 3 months away.

Thanks for that, when i bought this box in december i wanted to get ddr2, i had all the mobo, cpu, hdd etc ready and i mentioned lastly ddr2 ram , and the shop assistant said, well if you want ddr2, we are going to have to change some things around, so i just accepted the easier route, now that you have explained, it makes sense.

From your sata 2 discription its best for scientific or server situation than a games machine?.
 
so far have decided to stick with amd. from reading various articles it gives better performance per £ for heavyweight gaming. have also decided on the EAX1900XTX as a graphics card unless anyone has a pressing argument as to a better alternative

what i really need now is advice on a decent mobo, case and PSU. I will probably be lobbing 4 gig of ram onboard (overkill I know but I can get RAM cheap) so it needs to be capable of handling this.

Case wise it needs to look nice but am not arsed with all the blue neon light malarky. I like to have lots of expansion options so a tower case with lots of spare bays is in order here.

thanks for all the help so far
 
Aparently what you can do is have 4 SATAII drives per channel, so while 1 HD is not going to be bottlenecked by 150mb/s 4 of them will. So if you've got a god awful number of drives then it does help.

There is also NCQ, which should improve performance across the board for hard drives, however it doesn't always, for a single user it hurts performance, while in a server it does work as advertised.
 
bugger

just found this

512MB ASUS 7900GTX Mem Clock 1600 MHz ,GPU 650 MHz , 24 Pipes, Dual DVI-I , S-Video/TV Out

for £334

so then

the 7900gtx or

512MB ASUS Radeon X1900 XTX PCI-E (x16) Mem 1550 MHz , GPU 650 MHz ,48 Pipes VIVO @ £311
?
 
Oooooh, tricky!

I'd go for the 7900GTX, the performance is nearly identical with the X1900XTX leading in some places like oblivion (and it has some nice extra features like AA + HDR, but if you've never seen them you'll never miss them ;)), but the 7900GTX leading in many shooters. The main difference is that the 7900GTX runs cooler and quieter than the X1900XTX, which is nice.
 
Bob_the_lost said:
RAID0 is not proven to improve gaming performance, the storage review writeup on the benifits of RAID0 against getting a single hard drive was in summary: Don't bother, just get a single faster HD.

Rubbish. Get a pair of raptors and performance stripe them. You won't regret it.
 
Iam said:
Rubbish. Get a pair of raptors and performance stripe them. You won't regret it.


for gaming?

on a machine with 4 gig of ram?

cant see the difference being important enough to justify it tbh
 
Iam said:
Rubbish. Get a pair of raptors and performance stripe them. You won't regret it.

lol you wouldnt notice the difference between a single and a pair striped on a home machine. Lots of people seem to propogate this myth despite numerous tests showing the miniscule difference when using RAID0. Generally because they bought into the same setup and dont wanna feel disappointed with having wasted the cash.
 
In about a month or two, I need to start getting money together and doing up my machine - the main components in this one have lasted me about 5 years.

Here's what I'm looking at.

Motherboard - Abit AT8 Crossfire - £81.55
CPU - AMD A64 X2 4200 - £252.04
RAM - 2x Corsair 2Gb TwinX C2 - £342.16

Case - Lian-Li PC7B - £59.87
PSU - Thermaltake 470W - £34.43
Cooling - Gigabyte UltraGT - £29.26

Hard Drive 1 - WD 4000KD - £133.01
Hard Drive 2 - WD 320gb SATA - £83.43

Graphics 1 - Gainward GF 7900GTX - £364.19
Graphics 2 - Asus Extreme 6600LE - £46.65
Wifi - Linksys WMP55AG - £46.41
Sound - Creative SB Audigy2 7.1 - £92.71
TV - Hauppauge DEC - £89.10
Card Reader - some cheap shit - £10.52

Monitor - 2x Samsung SM970P - £641.44
Speakers - Creative Gigaworks 7.1 Surround - £257.79

Comes to about £2,400. I'm obviously not going to build it in one go; I'll start off with about £1,000 of it.

Any improvements/massive flaws? The second graphics card thing is purely for another output as I'll probably want to keep my CRT.

Cheers! :)
 
Iam said:
Rubbish. Get a pair of raptors and performance stripe them. You won't regret it.
http://www.anandtech.com/storage/showdoc.aspx?i=2682&p=7
Check the performance of the RAID0 array and then tell me that it improves performance
http://www.anandtech.com/storage/showdoc.aspx?i=2101
"If you haven't gotten the hint by now, we'll spell it out for you: there is no place, and no need for a RAID-0 array on a desktop computer. The real world performance increases are negligible at best"
http://forums.storagereview.net/index.php?showtopic=21621
Check post #25.

Your turn ;)
 
RAM - 2x Corsair 2Gb TwinX C2 - £342.16
Not a great plan with an AMD chip, if it's for gaming then this will decrease performance, of course if you do do stuff that uses more than 2GB (NO game even approaches that) then it might be worth it. Otherwise using 4 sticks drops your command rate down to 2T, this may change with AM2.

PSU - Thermaltake 470W - £34.43
Never use a thermaltake PSU, if you want a budget PSU then go for a fortron (aka FSP or sparkle).

If you're not overclocking or a low noise freak then don't bother with the 3rd party heatsink, the stock one is pretty good. You'll be getting a heatpiped one with the 4200X2 (either 2 pipe or 4 pipe, not sure).
 
Cheers!

I thought the PSU might be an issue, just based on cost alone. I don't really know what my RAM requirements are - just that I do loads of Photoshop, have loads of stuff running at once, and some big batch jobs like panoramas where it'd be useful. I think 2Gb is probably enough, until higher capacity single sticks come out.
 
*sulks*

Not saying a thing if you're going to be like that :D

Mauvais, you might be one of those rare (and odd) people that uses more than 2GB, if i were you i'd fire up taskmanager after a full day's hardcore photoshop etc. and see what your peak commit charge is, if it's over 1.5GB then i'd think hard about going for 2GB+, if it's 1GB or less then i wouldn't worry.
 
Bob_the_lost said:
http://www.anandtech.com/storage/showdoc.aspx?i=2682&p=7
Check the performance of the RAID0 array and then tell me that it improves performance
http://www.anandtech.com/storage/showdoc.aspx?i=2101
"If you haven't gotten the hint by now, we'll spell it out for you: there is no place, and no need for a RAID-0 array on a desktop computer. The real world performance increases are negligible at best"
http://forums.storagereview.net/index.php?showtopic=21621
Check post #25.

Your turn ;)

I have a gaming machine with a pair of raptors in this house.

That's what my op is based on.

But it's nice that you've done some reading. Bless.

:p
 
Iam said:
I have a gaming machine with a pair of raptors in this house.

That's what my op is based on.

But it's nice that you've done some reading. Bless.

:p
Aha, the most worthless of all opinions, subjective ones! :D

You didn't read the third link (specifically the posts by eugene who is the main reviewer at storagereview) did you?
 
Nope, because ultimately I'm not that fussed, Bobbo.

Just offering an alternative.

They're probably right in terms of bitrates on and off the discs to the processors or whatever they've measured.

But I like raptors.

:p :D
 
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