Minimising BNP seats in London

[RedRumsBum]

what has that to do with anything? And what 'racist terminology'? You make no sense.

Whilst it may or may not be a good idea to criticise Livingstone for hugging 'bigots', to use that as an excuse to vote for a man who is an undeniable bigot is crass stupidity.

** Re-editied ** - Fuck that, sorry, I'm not going to derail a thread about the BNP into one about Boris Johnson. Sorry.

 

[audiotech]

On the bounce, due to Brown's pitiful performance so far and perceptions of blame for the 'downturn in the economy', the tory vote looks likely to improve, some might hazard a guess at significantly, looking at recent polls?

I see UKIP and recent tory abstentionists/floaters taking the more pragmatic and considered option, by putting a cross next to the tory candidate, rather than the BNP one.

 

[RedRumsBum]

On the bounce, due to Brown's pitiful performance so far and perceptions of blame for the 'downturn in the economy', the tory vote looks likely to improve, some might hazard a guess at significantly, looking at recent polls?

I see UKIP and recent tory abstentionists/floaters taking the more pragmatic and considered option, by putting a cross next to the tory candidate, rather than the BNP one.

Sorry I don't believe that is going to happen. UKIP is falling apart at the moment and they are flocking to the BNP not to the tories. They see the UKIP leadership as corrupt as hell and with the exception of Collett, they'll be liking what they see in the BNP. There's loads of tories out there who are voting BNP first, tory second, as a tactical means, because they would rather the BNP got in rather than Labour.

Be worried, very worried. Ken's only hope is to mobilise the non-white vote, which he is doing.

 

[audiotech]

Sorry I don't believe that is going to happen. UKIP is falling apart at the moment and they are flocking to the BNP not to the tories. They see the UKIP leadership as corrupt as hell and with the exception of Collett, they'll be liking what they see in the BNP. There's loads of tories out there who are voting BNP first, tory second, as a tactical means, because they would rather the BNP got in rather than Labour.

Be worried, very worried. Ken's only hope is to mobilise the non-white vote, which he is doing.

I can feel the melodrama building!

 

[RedRumsBum]

I can feel the melodrama building!

Sorry, I really am, but I think you're wrong if you think the UKIPers are going to vote tory to keep the BNP out. You are believing what you want to believe and you are forgetting that the UKIPers share that human trait as well, we all do.

 

[KeyboardJockey]

T

However, it is clearly nonsense to suggest that you need to vote Tory, or that the BNP could win a constituency seat. Your choice is Labour, Lib Dem, Green or Tory if you want to guarantee you are voting for a party that finishes with 5% or more. If your priority is minimising BNP seats, these are the only parties that have won a 5% or higher share in both previous London elections.

Not necessarily. If those people who were considering voting bnp voted tory then the bnp vote would collapse. Dont' forget the bnp is picking up votes from working class tories and others as well as ex labour supporters. If these people voted tory instead because it looked like a better deal than voting bnp then the bnp would be destroyed.

 

[KeyboardJockey]

Sorry I don't believe that is going to happen. UKIP is falling apart at the moment and they are flocking to the BNP not to the tories. They see the UKIP leadership as corrupt as hell and with the exception of Collett, they'll be liking what they see in the BNP. There's loads of tories out there who are voting BNP first, tory second, as a tactical means, because they would rather the BNP got in rather than Labour.

UKIP to all intents and purposes are dead. I've seen the bnp put up some lame brains but fuck me the type of brain dead tosser who UKIP put up at the last election in my old area was worse than the bnp. Its a worrying state when Labour are so unpopular that the bnp look attractive.

Be worried, very worried. Ken's only hope is to mobilise the non-white vote, which he is doing.

That is about his only hope, that and the votes of those who directly benefit financially and otherwise from his misrule. L

Its a fucking shame its come to this. I was a dyed in the wool ken supporter for years but seeing how he has divisively played one group against another and had a sneering attitude to the ordinary man in the street hasturned me an others away from him.

 

[PaulOK]

On the basis that they occasionally invite Respect, Greens and UKIP on, he would probably get invited occasionaally. While no Tory/Liberal party member would share a platform with him, they will find a few pro freedom of speech fools who would create a political balance- journalists- authors etc

During the big Oxford Union debate bust up last year a senior Liberal Democrat Evan Harris shared a platform with Griffin and criticised anti-Fascists afterwards. Similarly, Senior Tory Alan Duncan (the incrediblly smug one) said on Question Time when discussing the debate that he would be happy to appear on the show with Griffin (when the panel was asked by Dimbelby their reaction to a BNP invitation). Labour's Caroline Flint was uncommital and hedged the question. We just have to face the fact that the Fascists are now more and more mainstream and we can't rely on the established parties to oppose them.

The fascists are also opening up new areas in London. The North West and South West middle class suburbs are a target - I hear their has been a lot of activity in Kingston and Richmond recently (both Tory/Liberal marginals) and they see the middle classes being hit by especially hard by the upcoming recession.

 

[poster342002]

Ken's only hope is to mobilise the non-white vote

Which, ironically, only compounds the process by further racialising the whole political process. It also gives succour to those who claim "the left's only interested in the ethnics" and gives impression that the left has written off white working class voters as a lost cause.

It's all wrong on so many levels.

 

[KeyboardJockey]

Which, ironically, only compounds the process by further racialising the whole political process. It also gives succour to those who claim "the left's only interested in the ethnics" and gives impression that the left has written off white working class voters as a lost cause.

It's all wrong on so many levels.

Agreed. Its the sort of divisive short sighted shitty policy that doesn't play on peoples similarities but on their differences.

The only winner out of Livingslime targetting the ethnic vote is going to be the bnp who will surely make a huge amount of how KL is ignoring the white working clases.

 

[RedRumsBum]

Which, ironically, only compounds the process by further racialising the whole political process. It also gives succour to those who claim "the left's only interested in the ethnics" and gives impression that the left has written off white working class voters as a lost cause.

It's all wrong on so many levels.

Well. That's the choice. You either concede that the working white classes are of the opinion that immigration doesn't benefit them, or you mobilise to oppose.

Or you could just have a violent revolution and send everyone to re-education camps until they submit to the notion that immigration benefits them.

 

[KeyboardJockey]

Well. That's the choice. You either concede that the working white classes are of the opinion that immigration doesn't benefit them, or you mobilise to oppose.

I think that mainstream politics needs to take into account and act upon the white working classes worries about economic migration in order to prevent a build up of support for more extremist anti immigration parties.

Or you could just have a violent revolution and send everyone to re-education camps until they submit to the notion that immigration benefits them.

Thats the New Labour option - minus the violent revolution bit- probably.

 

[Xanadu]

if they poll 3% in Haringey i would be surprised

I'd be surprised that get more than a handful of votes in Haringey.

 

[KeyboardJockey]

I'd be surprised that get more than a handful of votes in Haringey.

In the south of the constituency maybe but in the Enfield bit maybe much higher. It all depends on the turnout in the south of the constituency really. If there is a low turnout or the anti bnp vote in the south is split then they could take the seat.

 

[ViolentPanda]

You are all being conned. There is NO BNP threat. This publicity is largely Labour Party inspired - to bring out reluctant (mainly black and asian) voters. The s---heads in the BNP are no threat unless a group of them catch one walking alone after a football match. Sexton was right when he asked "What will their candidates do anyway in the Assembly - if they can find their way there?"

All this publicity only encourages them to think that they have some importance - and that is a mistake.

The point isn't that the BNP are an immediate threat, but that if they win a GLA seat they may, in some people's eyes, become a "credible" electoral entity, pulling in votes from people who might ordinarily vote otherwise.
Yes, Labour have "puffed" the BNP threat, as have the tories and lib dems, but it's worth looking to the future, not just considering the here and now.

 

[KeyboardJockey]

The point isn't that the BNP are an immediate threat, but that if they win a GLA seat they may, in some people's eyes, become a "credible" electoral entity, pulling in votes from people who might ordinarily vote otherwise.
Yes, Labour have "puffed" the BNP threat, as have the tories and lib dems, but it's worth looking to the future, not just considering the here and now.

VP you are dead right there. Unlike some other posters I've observed the fash close up so to speak and they do need to be blocked - yes even if it does mean voting tory - as much as possible. They WILL without a doubt use a GLA seat to build and because they have a GLA seat they will become more credible and start to lose the 'extremist nutter' tag.

Voters who might otherwise be put off will transfer votes from the NL and Tories who are becoming discredited in many peoples eyes to the bnp if they become respectable.

I saw this happen in Dagenham. I don't want to see this happen in the GLA. Once they got Clueless Kelley in they knew they were electable and although Clueless was a disaster as a councillor the fact that they got elected helped them to build.

 

[audiotech]

Sorry, I really am, but I think you're wrong if you think the UKIPers are going to vote tory to keep the BNP out. You are believing what you want to believe and you are forgetting that the UKIPers share that human trait as well, we all do.

Where did I did I say that UKIP voters would vote to keep the BNP out?

 

[KeyboardJockey]

Where did I did I say that UKIP voters would vote to keep the BNP out?

I'm not going to comment on this apart from saying that there is a cross over in voters between UKIP and BNP. As UKIP has imploded this nationalist vote may well go to the fash.

 

[RedRumsBum]

Where did I did I say that UKIP voters would vote to keep the BNP out?

I was replying to this :

"I see UKIP and recent tory abstentionists/floaters taking the more pragmatic and considered option, by putting a cross next to the tory candidate, rather than the BNP one."

Which is true...as long as 2 UKIPERs out of thousands stroke their beards before giving the tories a chance....but I didn't think that was the spirit in which you meant it.

What do you think, since I've obviously misunderstood you? Do you think most UKIPERs are going to go tory or BNP?

 

[audiotech]

I was replying to this :

"I see UKIP and recent tory abstentionists/floaters taking the more pragmatic and considered option, by putting a cross next to the tory candidate, rather than the BNP one."

Which is true...as long as 2 UKIPERs out of thousands stroke their beards before giving the tories a chance....but I didn't think that was the spirit in which you meant it.

What do you think, since I've obviously misunderstood you? Do you think most UKIPERs are going to go tory or BNP?

I thought I'd made it clear, some floating UKIP voters will be swept along by the tories present position in the polls, others will be more considered.

As to whether whole swathes of previous UKIP voters turn to the BNP? Doubtful, as there hasn't been much evidence of that so far.

 

[RedRumsBum]

I thought I'd made it clear, some floating UKIP voters will be swept along by the tories present position in the polls, others will be more considered.

As to whether whole swathes of previous UKIP voters turn to the BNP? Doubtful, as there hasn't been much evidence of that so far.

"more considered" - by that you do realize that when a UKIPER "considers" that the tories are likely to be in the top two AND the secondary votes only count for the top two, they'll be bloody well tempted to vote BNP first and Tory second as the most effective means of getting what they want.

 

[treelover]

Who knows what they will do in the future, look at Fini, former fascist, now a main partner in the new Italian Govt.

VP you are dead right there. Unlike some other posters I've observed the fash close up so to speak and they do need to be blocked - yes even if it does mean voting tory - as much as possible. They WILL without a doubt use a GLA seat to build and because they have a GLA seat they will become more credible and start to lose the 'extremist nutter' tag.

 

[biff curtains]

I'm hearing rumours (which if they are wrong would be great) that Enfield and Harringey constituency may well turn in a bnp assembly member as there is a swing to the bnp in the north ie the Enfield bit of the constituency which may if the bnp can get their vote out cancel out the increased ethnic minority vote in the south of the consituency. Stamford Hill may well turn out for the Tories so its not as if there is a solid Labour vote (and Harrigey council has been doing its usual riding roughshod over the locals despite valuable work being put in by the IWW) in the south to counteract that.

Stamford Hill is in Hackney - not Haringey. There is no significant IWW presence in either Haringey, Enfield or Hackney.

There is currently no significant BNP presence either - however they may do quite well in the Haringey and Enflield consitituency, and that includes getting a reasonable vote that may surprise many in Tottenham. I predict 5% as a minimum for the list, and maybe more.

There is no chance of them getting an Assembly seat in the constituency or any other constituency - they will get one, and maybe two AMs but that is from the list.

 

[JimPage]

Sorry, I really am, but I think you're wrong if you think the UKIPers are going to vote tory to keep the BNP out. You are believing what you want to believe and you are forgetting that the UKIPers share that human trait as well, we all do.

If you can judge those UKIP at the Britsih Democracy forum to be average UKIP voter supporter - as a whole they absolutely despise the BNP and are more liekly than some on the left to accept that the BNP are a Nazi organisation.

If the BNP win votes from other parties in this election, it will mainly be from Labour.

 

[JimPage]

Generally, how is the antifascist campaign in London going. Is there much buzz about the Carnival in Victoria Park? Will it have much impact?

 

[audiotech]

Who knows what they will do in the future, look at Fini, former fascist, now a main partner in the new Italian Govt.

Main partner?

Fini has said that fascism is an "absolute evil'. This statement had the support of 70% of National Alliance supporters.

Fini reportedly has been trying to move his party away from its fascist past into the respectable centre-right.

 

[treelover]

eh, thats my point, they can change their politics, just like former Trots like Milburn have moved to the centre right.

 

[audiotech]

eh, thats my point, they can change their politics, just like former Trots like Milburn have moved to the centre right.

Some will never change their politics. You for example still hold steadfastly to Labourism.

Anyway, Italian politics are a bit more complex than your simple, trot baiting comparison.

 

[RedRumsBum]

If you can judge those UKIP at the Britsih Democracy forum to be average UKIP voter supporter - as a whole they absolutely despise the BNP and are more liekly than some on the left to accept that the BNP are a Nazi organisation.

If the BNP win votes from other parties in this election, it will mainly be from Labour.

I don't. As long as they are UKIPers, of course they are going to go out of their way to claim that the BNP are evil. UKIP is nicknamed "BNP lite" for a reason. UKIP are paranoid about being branded racists because of their immigration policy, so they are going to be as vocal as they can in comdemning the BNP as racist / Nazi / Whatever.

 

[ViolentPanda]

If the BNP win votes from other parties in this election, it will mainly be from Labour.

In my own opinion, Labour and the tories.