Milk bottles

Discussion in 'science, nature and environment' started by newbie, Sep 26, 2018.

  1. newbie

    newbie undisambiguated

    According to the Graun, citing a parliamentary report which references a claim by Surfers Against Sewage, out of 38.5 million plastic milk bottles used each day some 15m aren't recycled. I boggle slightly at that. There are some 60-odd million people including kids, do we really use a bottle each on two out of every three days and then lob nearly half of them onto a beach, into a hedge or landfill, at a rate of 100m a week, half a billion a year? Seems extraordinary, why don't we see abandoned milk bottles everywhere we look?

    Anyway, the article moves on to the virtues of selling milk in FSC certified cardboard cartons, which use 80% less plastic than bottles. Poking around, this looks like the packaging, showing paperboard (only optionally FSC certified despite the spin) with sugar cane based plastics made in Brazil.

    Is this a good idea? Are there enough forests to completely replace plastic bottles with cartons? Is it fair to presume the proportion that aren't recycled won't change much, so so we'll be knee deep in cartons instead of bottles? Too many questions, anyone got any views?
     
  2. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Every man and every woman is a star

    what's wrong with glass milk bottles?

    they can last a long time and have a range of other uses too.
     
  3. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Every man and every woman is a star

  4. cupid_stunt

    cupid_stunt Dyslexic King Cnut the Great.

    Such as petrol bombs.

    ETA: Just beaten to it. :mad:
     
    Pickman's model likes this.
  5. cupid_stunt

    cupid_stunt Dyslexic King Cnut the Great.

    Glass milk bottle were fine when most people had doorstep deliveries, not so practical when buying from shops, and getting people to rinse & return them.
     
    NoXion likes this.
  6. newbie

    newbie undisambiguated

    bluetits
     
    wiskey and cupid_stunt like this.
  7. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Every man and every woman is a star

    no, that's a problem with the lids not the bottles. a small change to those and the issue would be resolved.
     
    Badgers likes this.
  8. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Every man and every woman is a star

    minor obstacles: a decent recycling programme would resolve that; continuing with plastic bottles not sustainable.
     
    Sprocket. and Badgers like this.
  9. newbie

    newbie undisambiguated

    bah, bluetits evolve faster than the packaging industry
     
  10. trashpony

    trashpony Ovaries and tings

    I have milk delivered in bottles. So far, no birds have even attempted to pierce the lids
     
    two sheds and Pickman's model like this.
  11. wiskey

    wiskey Albatross Admirer

    People manage to buy alcohol from shops in glass bottles and recycle them.
     
  12. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Every man and every woman is a star

    would they hammer through a cork top? i think not.
     
  13. The39thStep

    The39thStep Well-Known Member

    All the milk both fresh and uht is in cardboard cartons here.
     
  14. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Every man and every woman is a star

    not so good for chucking at cops tho
     
    Badgers likes this.
  15. The39thStep

    The39thStep Well-Known Member

    Dont have that sort of behaviour here
     
  16. JimW

    JimW 支那暗杀团

    We always drank the milk after the tits had been at it anyway. Did us no harm, moan, grumble, etc
     
  17. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Every man and every woman is a star

    can see a few rocks being flung just after 0'15" in the video here

    Austerity protests grip EU cities
     
  18. The39thStep

    The39thStep Well-Known Member

  19. newbie

    newbie undisambiguated

    FSC certified? with added Brazilian sugar cane?
     
  20. The39thStep

    The39thStep Well-Known Member

    Havent a clue tbh. I'll see if I can remember to read the small print.
     
    newbie likes this.
  21. newbie

    newbie undisambiguated

    I've been reading up, it apparently takes 1.75kg of oil to make 1kg of HDPE, the stuff plastic milk bottles are made of. It's non-biodegradable but easily recyclable, although the resultant polymer doesn't seem to be used for new milk bottles.

    So milk bottles are bad. Ignoring the phantasies of violence, the other option is plant based, which goes back to whether there are enough forests.
     
  22. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Every man and every woman is a star

    or we could move away from dairy, i don't dare look to see how resource intensive getting a pint of milk is.
     
    farmerbarleymow likes this.
  23. JimW

    JimW 支那暗杀团

    My mum's old enough to remember being sent out with a jug to get milk out of the churn on a cart when the milkman came round. No chance of that coming back i suppose, even those bring your own container for bulk stuff like soaps seem pretty niche.
     
  24. newbie

    newbie undisambiguated

    yeh. It apparently takes a ludicrous 6,000l of water to make a single litre of almond milk, "Over 80% of the world’s almonds are grown in California, which has been in severe drought for most of this decade."

    There's no scalable and sustainable solution to anything :(
     
    Pickman's model likes this.
  25. cupid_stunt

    cupid_stunt Dyslexic King Cnut the Great.

    I agree plastic bottles are not sustainable, but single use glass bottles are not the answer, the energy used in producing them is very high, and the extra weight when transporting them adds to the wasted energy. Single use glass bottles would also add a fair bit to the cost of milk too.

    Glass milk bottles are only environmentally friendly when they are re-used several times, IIRC they are re-used up to 50 times. Going back to doorstep deliveries would be great, but not sure many will want to pay 60p or more a pint, when you can get 4 pints for £1 in supermarkets.

    The amount of alcohol sold in glass bottles is a lot lower than the total amount of milk sold, also being of higher value, the high cost of the glass bottle as a percentage of the total price is a lot lower than it would be for milk.

    If we are looking at a single use replacement for plastic milk bottles, cardboard cartons would be far better than glass bottle.
     
    A380 likes this.
  26. cupid_stunt

    cupid_stunt Dyslexic King Cnut the Great.

    I couldn't get my head around those figures, but it's 38.5 million plastic bottles a day, not just milk bottles, which would go some way in explaining the low recycling rates for the total number of bottles.

    Digging around recycling of milk bottles is higher than most plastic bottles, because they are mainly used at home & most go into recycling bins, whereas water bottles are more likely to be used whilst out & about, and they tend to go into general waste bins. Also commonly used items people might not know are recyclable include: empty bleach; shampoo; conditioner; bathroom cleaners and hand soap dispenser bottles - so these have much lower recycling rates.

    It's hard finding figures, but back in 2010 over 70% of plastic milk bottles were being recycled, that must be a lot higher now, as kerbside collections of plastic bottles have been rolled out by almost every council now.
     
  27. StoneRoad

    StoneRoad heckling from the back!

    Still have to bet people to wash their old bottle out properly.

    Even rinsing out their glass milk bottle was too hard for some (good job that the diary has a good bottle washing / sterilser line) ...
     
  28. 8ball

    8ball Considerably more oppressed than yow

    Don't go messing with evolution.

    Once the bluetits have opposable thumbs, we'll be fucked. :eek:
     
  29. cupid_stunt

    cupid_stunt Dyslexic King Cnut the Great.

    I've just found this article, which is interesting as I remember reading before that plastic HDPE milk bottles are not so much of a problem compared to other plastic bottles, and either are so bad compared to other forms of plastic packaging, because they are easier to recycle both for consumers because of kerbside collections, and for the industry.

    https://www.letsrecycle.com/news/latest-news/no-good-reason-to-replace-plastic-milk-bottles/

     
  30. farmerbarleymow

    farmerbarleymow Sweetcorn, Seagulls and Wasps are Brilliant!

    I agree with making consumption of cow juice illegal - and that would have the happy byproduct of lots more lovely cheese for people to eat. :)
     

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