Militant Anti-fascists turned over the BPP Victoria meeting

[The Black Hand]

To influence people who are struggling we need?

“To merit the right to influence men who are struggling, one must first participate in their struggle, and this first means accepting many things, if you hope to change a few of them... You will discover Justice in each effort that you make to order your undertakings... in each effort to subject yourself to discipline or to apply it.. It is not a question of knowing whether History has a meaning and whether we should deign to participate in it, but to try, from the moment we are in it up to the eyebrows, to give History that meaning which seems best to us, by not refusing our participation, however weak, to any concrete action which may require it” (Sartre, 1965, p. 71-105. Esp. 90 & 104)

There is not one bit of Sartre which supports getting people to vote for a party with no chance whatsoever of power.

 

[lights.out.london]

Bit confusing this as as I understand it the IWCA don't go looking for ex lefties to recruit but actually canvass and recruit supporters amongst local people.

So what's gone wrong?

 

[Nigel]

That is evidence of the stupidity, ignorance and irrelevance of their theory. The fact that in 15 years they have gone nowhere, and in recent years, even in their own backyard (Loss of 50% ie. 2 council seats in Blackbird leys) have gone from a slight decline into a vertical drop off the cliff. Their failure to widely apply their preffered strategy IS evidence of its non applicability within that wider world. That is not to say that everything about them (though in some terms it does) is wrong, even a broken clock is right twice a day. The point is to take the better bits and dump the rest - such as the arrogance/purism/failure to work with other even slightly political humans beyond their ghetto etc.

They offer the working class movement nothing but irrelevant purism and a self inflicted cul de sac [dead end]...

Like supporting Academy Schools & then staying silent on the issue.

 

[The39thStep]

So what's gone wrong?

Oxford was about the only place I have read about where New Labour actually did well in the elections! Not sure what the issue was in Oxford but New Labour made a concerted effort and brought out the vote. I am sure Joe Reilly or others will have more info.

The what is going right is that there is now some real discussion outside of the liberal left about how local organisation and local activity can strengthen the working class in local communities. I don't think I am too bothered about how its badged and there are examples outside of the IWCA which are have had some level of success , although I am firmly convinced of the IWCA position that without gaining local representation such successes die out or are simply taken over ( or credit for them) by other parties.

The IWCA site is being revamped, as an organisation it recieves enquiries and it is expanding its supporters network.

It still has two councillors which means that it is punching far above its weight than the Trot left for its size.Even its unsuccesful candidates got a credible percentage share compared to RESPECT or the Left List.

 

[Nigel]

Oxford was about the only place I have read about where New Labour actually did well in the elections! Not sure what the issue was in Oxford but New Labour made a concerted effort and brought out the vote. I am sure Joe Reilly or others will have more info.

The what is going right is that there is now some real discussion outside of the liberal left about how local organisation and local activity can strengthen the working class in local communities. I don't think I am too bothered about how its badged and there are examples outside of the IWCA which are have had some level of success , although I am firmly convinced of the IWCA position that without gaining local representation such successes die out or are simply taken over ( or credit for them) by other parties.

The IWCA site is being revamped, as an organisation it recieves enquiries and it is expanding its supporters network.

It still has two councillors which means that it is punching far above its weight than the Trot left for its size.Even its unsuccesful candidates got a credible percentage share compared to RESPECT or the Left List.

So it has more electorial support than say the Socialist Party, or Socialist Action within the Labour Party?

 

[lights.out.london]

Oxford was about the only place I have read about where New Labour actually did well in the elections! Not sure what the issue was in Oxford but New Labour made a concerted effort and brought out the vote. I am sure Joe Reilly or others will have more info.

Maybe you two need to talk? ^ v

what, the IWCA?!

what are you on mate, the most plain speaking left group of all time. And let's drop this posthumous stuff eh? The IWCA are in a downturn but are still around and still streets ahead of the rest of the left on a host of issues. The fact they have managed to unite nay-sayers from the mad anarchist to headbanging trotskyist traditions is only testament to the fact they still micturate up them from a vast, vast height.

It still has two councillors which means that it is punching far above its weight than the Trot left for its size. Even its unsuccesful candidates got a credible percentage share compared to RESPECT or the Left List.

That's a lot of plain speaking and struggle for little return. The left-left seem to settle for so little these days.

Credible = didn't win = no cigar, do not pass go and off you go back to the lefty ghetto.

 

[The39thStep]

Maybe you two need to talk? ^ v





That's a lot of plain speaking and struggle for little return. The left-left seem to settle for so little these days.

Credible = didn't win = no cigar, do not pass go and off you go back to the lefty ghetto.

particulary stupid post what are you trying to say?

 

[The39thStep]

So it has more electorial support than say the Socialist Party, or Socialist Action within the Labour Party?

You don't think for the size of its membership the IWCA punches above its weight?


If you mean the ex Millies then they have more members and have been around for a lot longer. Out of the far left at least they do some hard slog rather always parachute in on some campaign but they lost a cllr I think as well.

Don't know what you mean about having more electoral support than SA in the Labour party.I don't remember seeing candidates standing on some Socialist Action platform as New Labour candidates.

 

[The Black Hand]

So it has more electorial support than say the Socialist Party, or Socialist Action within the Labour Party?

In Oxford. Nowhere else. In truth the IWCA is an Oxford organisation, just like the Trot left they criticise

Take away Oxford (local conditions) they are nothing, and pretending anything else is foolish. It has taken them 15 years to get this far too.

FACE FACTS?

The IWCA is Ultra leftist - the idea that everything and everybody else can be written off. A purer statement of an elitist ultra left approach I cannot think of.

WAKE UP

Especially when combined with the political failure to work with anybody else. E.g. note the dismissal of the largest demo in British history (2003) and effectively everybody on it. Rather than admire the strength of the British democratic tradition as these people came 'out of the blue' - think CND etc . They manage to take an event and turn it into 'reasons for their approach'. When to my mind, the largest march in British history during a supposed 'working class downturn' proves the elitism of the 'go it alone' approach.

SMELL THE COFFEE

 

[The Black Hand]

You don't think for the size of its membership the IWCA punches above its weight?

No.

 

[lights.out.london]

particulary stupid post what are you trying to say?

"Stupid" because I don't agree that they (you) have achieved anything of note, anything lasting and anything that makes a difference.

By "credible", you really mean failure.

 

[The39thStep]

No.

How's that recruitment drive for the dog to join your one man campaign by the way?

 

[Red O]

Like supporting Academy Schools & then staying silent on the issue.

If memory serves correctly, this isn't the first time I've seen such an assertion made on here. It's garbage, for the record:

http://www.iwca-islington.org.uk/Isl%20Indi_%20Mar_%2005.pdf

http://www.iwca-islington.org.uk/ec1summer05.pdf

http://www.iwca-oxford.org.uk/blackbirdleys/news/nws07013.htm

http://www.iwca-oxford.org.uk/blackbirdleys/news/nws07004.htm

http://www.bliwca.fsnet.co.uk/news/nws06023.htm

http://www.ukwatch.net/article/privatisation_of_education

 

[lights.out.london]

If memory serves correctly, this isn't the first time I've seen such an assertion made on here. It's garbage, for the record:

http://www.iwca-islington.org.uk/Isl%20Indi_%20Mar_%2005.pdf

http://www.iwca-islington.org.uk/ec1summer05.pdf

http://www.iwca-oxford.org.uk/blackbirdleys/news/nws07013.htm

http://www.iwca-oxford.org.uk/blackbirdleys/news/nws07004.htm

http://www.bliwca.fsnet.co.uk/news/nws06023.htm

http://www.ukwatch.net/article/privatisation_of_education

Hadn't seen some of those before. Ta for the links, mate.

 

[The Black Hand]

How's that recruitment drive for the dog to join your one man campaign by the way?

WTF The Wobblies are way bigger than that. Our IWW stall and Mayday books stall did very very well at the Newcastle Green festival today. We will do it again next year. We were next to the AF all day and there was a very comradely atmosphere. It's only you bitter internet wallies who give politics a bad name

 

[The39thStep]

WTF The Wobblies are way bigger than that. Our IWW stall and Mayday books stall did very very well at the Newcastle Green festival today. We will do it again next year. We were next to the AF all day and there was a very comradely atmosphere. It's only you bitter internet wallies who give politics a bad name

Attica you are not a key person in the IWW, you are name dropping again.You have a knack of dressing up in what ever convenient cover there is at the time. Glad there was a very comradely atmosphere and well done to AF for assisting that by not engaging with you.

 

[The Black Hand]

Attica you are not a key person in the IWW, you are name dropping again.You have a knack of dressing up in what ever convenient cover there is at the time. Glad there was a very comradely atmosphere and well done to AF for assisting that by not engaging with you.

You have no brain at all, you were not there. WTF are you on about 'convenient cover'.. bollocks. I play a role in my branch, we get on well, we are an able and growing branch.

You are a bitter fuckwit. Grow up.

The AF and me had a right good chat btw - they are not as sectarian and bitter as you are clearly. Try some politics some time please, you've waited long enough.

 

[The Black Hand]

You (39th step) have no brain at all, you were not there. WTF are you on about 'convenient cover'.. bollocks. I play a role in my branch, we get on well, we are an able and growing branch.

You are a bitter fuckwit. Grow up.

The AF and me had a right good chat btw - they are not as sectarian and bitter as you are clearly. Try some politics some time please, you've waited long enough.

True.

 

[The39thStep]

"Stupid" because I don't agree that they (you) have achieved anything of note, anything lasting and anything that makes a difference.

By "credible", you really mean failure.

no stupid as in garbled. What were you trying to say in that post?

 

[The39thStep]

You have no brain at all, you were not there. WTF are you on about 'convenient cover'.. bollocks. I play a role in my branch, we get on well, we are an able and growing branch.

You are a bitter fuckwit. Grow up.

The AF and me had a right good chat btw - they are not as sectarian and bitter as you are clearly. Try some politics some time please, you've waited long enough.

Sorry I always had the impression that you were a lecturer

 

[The Black Hand]

no stupid as in garbled. What were you trying to say in that post?

Hello. What are you doing on this site? Did you take a left turn?

 

[The Black Hand]

Sorry I always had the impression that you were a lecturer

No.

 

[lights.out.london]

no stupid as in garbled. What were you trying to say in that post?

The key word to hold onto here is failure.

–noun 1. an act or instance of failing or proving unsuccessful; lack of success: His effort ended in failure. The campaign was a failure.
2. nonperformance of something due, required, or expected: a failure to do what one has promised; a failure to appear.
3. a subnormal quantity or quality; an insufficiency: the failure of crops.
4. deterioration or decay, esp. of vigor, strength, etc.: The failure of her health made retirement necessary.
5. a condition of being bankrupt by reason of insolvency.
6. a becoming insolvent or bankrupt: the failure of a bank.
7. a person or thing that proves unsuccessful: He is a failure in his career. The cake is a failure.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/failure

Your cake is a failure.

 

[Nigel]

If memory serves correctly, this isn't the first time I've seen such an assertion made on here. It's garbage, for the record:

http://www.iwca-islington.org.uk/Isl%20Indi_%20Mar_%2005.pdf

http://www.iwca-islington.org.uk/ec1summer05.pdf

http://www.iwca-oxford.org.uk/blackbirdleys/news/nws07013.htm

http://www.iwca-oxford.org.uk/blackbirdleys/news/nws07004.htm

http://www.bliwca.fsnet.co.uk/news/nws06023.htm

http://www.ukwatch.net/article/privatisation_of_education

I stand corrected.
Cheers

Apparentely,recent election results in Blackbird Leys & Oxford are'nt all that they seem to be??!!!

 

[Taxamo Welf]

The AF and me had a right good chat btw - they are not as sectarian and bitter as you are clearly.

You should join, really!

 

[durruti02]

You should join, really!

you naughty scamp!

 

[The Black Hand]

You should join, really!

I used to be a member circa 20 yrs ago

 

[The Black Hand]

In Oxford. Nowhere else. In truth the IWCA is an Oxford organisation, just like the Trot left they criticise

Take away Oxford (local conditions) they are nothing, and pretending anything else is foolish. It has taken them 15 years to get this far too.

FACE FACTS?

The IWCA is Ultra leftist - the idea that everything and everybody else can be written off. A purer statement of an elitist ultra left approach I cannot think of.

WAKE UP

Especially when combined with the political failure to work with anybody else. E.g. note the dismissal of the largest demo in British history (2003) and effectively everybody on it. Rather than admire the strength of the British democratic tradition as these people came 'out of the blue' - think CND etc . They manage to take an event and turn it into 'reasons for their approach'. When to my mind, the largest march in British history during a supposed 'working class downturn' proves the elitism of the 'go it alone' approach.

SMELL THE COFFEE

9.9/10

 

[Taxamo Welf]

I used to be a member circa 20 yrs ago

 

[The Black Hand]

We should get together and talk about our experiences



BTW

Are there any public documents for the similar sounding to the Autonomy and Solidarity group (Canadian) but new UK group 'Liberty and Solidarity'?

Website?