Militant Anti-fascists turned over the BPP Victoria meeting

[e19896]

so how do you explain their results in barsnley then enumbers and joer??? will you reveiew your strategy now? it does not seem to be working .. they did pretty well in rotherham too

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/south_yorkshire/7378924.stm no there is no need to look at why we need to beat them down on the streets, ill stand by my politics as i grew up in the 1970,s early 1980,s and it was by force and education we beat them then and will be the same again, of course gutted as i now live in rotherham and to some extent it is simply a protest vote. lets remember this is all this is a protest vote, and i know in Barnsley some will refuse to work or even sit in the chamber with them, there the same people who have shafted the working class and lead us to this result.

what we need to remember are the reason why the working class feel the only voice they have comes from the far right scum, need to educate and i agree we have an hard task but militant anti fascist action plays a part and very serious role in this.

i shall never be moved on this:

 

[The Black Hand]

so check the bnp elections results for barnsley ..

WHoever said that on its own would affect change? - you have swallowed hook line and sinker the 'nothing works' drivel.

 

[Nigel]

Spot On!!!!!

Nice One.

Who says set peice activities like this can't be done anymore.

This must be one the first succesful activities for Antifa.

Last time anything like this was attempted, must have been Feltham in late 1990's.
From what i've seen this is early days yet, I don't think people like Butchers should be so cynical

 

[The Black Hand]

Nice One.

Who says set peice activities like this can't be done anymore.

This must be one the first succesful activities for Antifa.

Last time anything like this was attempted, must have been Feltham in late 1990's.
From what i've seen this is early days yet, I don't think people like Butchers should be so cynical

That's cos he's adopted the IWCA/Red action crap.

 

[durruti02]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/south_yorkshire/7378924.stm no there is no need to look at why we need to beat them down on the streets, ill stand by my politics as i grew up in the 1970,s early 1980,s and it was by force and education we beat them then and will be the same again, of course gutted as i now live in rotherham and to some extent it is simply a protest vote. lets remember this is all this is a protest vote, and i know in Barnsley some will refuse to work or even sit in the chamber with them, there the same people who have shafted the working class and lead us to this result.

what we need to remember are the reason why the working class feel the only voice they have comes from the far right scum, need to educate and i agree we have an hard task but militant anti fascist action plays a part and very serious role in this.

i shall never be moved on this:

but your antifa tactics have failed totally .. you think you can beat them off the streets when they outnumber us so? they are doing what we should be doing .. actually organising door to door .. instead of thinking that turning over a few tables or twats changes peoples opinions .. its the same as the middle class leftism .. telling w/c people what they should believe instead of working with people .. and attacking them instead of the people who fuck them up day in day out ..

 

[PaulOK]

That's cos he's adopted the IWCA/Red action crap.

Do Red Action exist anymore? I though they wound up about 5 or so years ago.

 

[durruti02]

Do Red Action exist anymore? I though they wound up about 5 or so years ago.

RA after leading militant anti fascism in the uk from 1980 to the mid 9ts after much political thought took a decision that IWCA tactics were more appropriate and dropped militant anti fascism .. based on the bnp's conversion to euro fascism ( door knocking 'anti racist' (!) respectibity ) from the previous confrontational street tactics ... AND the general political situation .. whether they exist or not i can not say! ( apparrently not but who knows!)

whether they are right or wrong ( i believe they were, and are, right ) to be dismissive of their opinions and change is quite frankly idiotic

 

[likesfish]

well the bpp sound like nice people who richly deserve a kicking from which ever quarter they get one so well done.
can't really complain too much if your a nazi intent on putting people in camps which is sort of inferred on there website
if the non aryans give you a kicking first

 

[durruti02]

well the bpp sound like nice people who richly deserve a kicking from which ever quarter they get one so well done.
can't really complain too much if your a nazi intent on putting people in camps which is sort of inferred on there website
if the non aryans give you a kicking first

i don't think anyone disagrees on this thread that they DESERVE a kicking .. it is whether this is the right tactics to defeat fascism more in general ..

we are told of attacks on fascists in barnsley and south yorks yet the fasc did very very well in barnsley rotherham and sheffield .. it does not work generally

 

[The Black Hand]

RA after leading militant anti fascism in the uk from 1980 to the mid 9ts after much political thought took a decision that IWCA tactics were more appropriate and dropped militant anti fascism .. based on the bnp's conversion to euro fascism ( door knocking 'anti racist' (!) respectibity ) from the previous confrontational street tactics ... AND the general political situation .. whether they exist or not i can not say! ( apparrently not but who knows!)

whether they are right or wrong ( i believe they were, and are, right ) to be dismissive of their opinions and change is quite frankly idiotic

That depends upon whether you think their 'conversion' to libertarian principals is genuine and I do not.

 

[KeyboardJockey]

but your antifa tactics have failed totally .. you think you can beat them off the streets when they outnumber us so? they are doing what we should be doing .. actually organising door to door .. instead of thinking that turning over a few tables or twats changes peoples opinions .. its the same as the middle class leftism .. telling w/c people what they should believe instead of working with people .. and attacking them instead of the people who fuck them up day in day out ..

Durruti02, you have summed in words how I saw the bnp build in reality. They did do the door to door stuff when there wasn't an election.

The old style street confrontation tactics against fash do not work anymore. The bnp have grown to the extent where their supporters are now outnumbering the anti fash activists to a considerable extent. The middle class leftists have sided with the state becuase they believe that they know whats good for ordinary people and this lack of voice, and the treason of left groups by backing the very politicians who have caused problems is a big factor. Plus if you add in the fact that many left politicos have backed the regressive taxation policies of NL you have a winning formula for the bnp.

Apart from a couple of Searchlight rags where I used to live we saw no grass roots activity from the bnp's opponents whatsoever whereas the bnp were there and drinking in the pubs and listening to people.

 

[The Black Hand]

Durruti02, you have summed in words how I saw the bnp build in reality. They did do the door to door stuff when there wasn't an election.

The old style street confrontation tactics against fash do not work anymore. The bnp have grown to the extent where their supporters are now outnumbering the anti fash activists to a considerable extent. The middle class leftists have sided with the state becuase they believe that they know whats good for ordinary people and this lack of voice, and the treason of left groups by backing the very politicians who have caused problems is a big factor. Plus if you add in the fact that many left politicos have backed the regressive taxation policies of NL you have a winning formula for the bnp.

Apart from a couple of Searchlight rags where I used to live we saw no grass roots activity from the bnp's opponents whatsoever whereas the bnp were there and drinking in the pubs and listening to people.

BUt politically they are nowhere. They haven't got a fascist cadre and they have no manifestations of their power or lack of it at all.

 

[KeyboardJockey]

BUt politically they are nowhere. They haven't got a fascist cadre and they have no manifestations of their power or lack of it at all.

They are the official opposition on a London Borough. That is far more influencial than a group of twats kicking over a stall.

 

[likesfish]

the bnp get in when the traditional parties have fucked up
people vote bnp because they are racist scumbags a minority
b the local council has ignored them for too long
none of these are going to be achived by running around hitting people
trouble is if your in power are deeply unpopular going if you don't vote for us the bnp will get in that won't work

 

[audiotech]

RA after leading militant anti fascism in the uk from 1980 to the mid 9ts after much political thought took a decision that IWCA tactics were more appropriate and dropped militant anti fascism .. based on the bnp's conversion to euro fascism ( ) from the previous confrontational street tactics ... AND the general political situation .. whether they exist or not i can not say! ( apparrently not but who knows!)

whether they are right or wrong ( i believe they were, and are, right ) to be dismissive of their opinions and change is quite frankly idiotic

The IWCA tactics have just seen them lose two seats.

That indicates surely that "door knocking 'anti racist' respectibity" has failed?

 

[audiotech]

but your antifa tactics have failed totally .. you think you can beat them off the streets when they outnumber us so? they are doing what we should be doing .. actually organising door to door .. instead of thinking that turning over a few tables or twats changes peoples opinions .. its the same as the middle class leftism .. telling w/c people what they should believe instead of working with people .. and attacking them instead of the people who fuck them up day in day out ..

Barnbrook prancing about on a horse dressed as St George doesn't mean the fascists control the streets.

The BNP are not on the streets and they don't out number anyone. Couldn't even organise a protest in their supposed 'heartland' of Barking and Dagenham a few months back.

The BNP are not organising door to door. They usually parachute in, leaflet and then leave.

It's about time that the left stopped fuckin' about listening and start showing some backbone and leadership for a change.

 

[The39thStep]

It isn't any coincidence that that the BNP won't stand in Oxford Leys as the IWCA have the anti New Labour vote rather than them.

Not sure what this call for backbone is all about from the post about.

 

[Divisive Cotton]

It isn't any coincidence that that the BNP won't stand in Oxford Leys as the IWCA have the anti New Labour vote rather than them.

Yeah, good point - very accurate.

 

[Nigel]

Houses built on sand.

Its a long war.
The IWCA's success is beginning to diminish because they have no real politics, a romanticised idea of the working class and a populist image.

Antifa may have problems just falling into subcultural politics, wihich Anarchist(predominantely) organisations always have.

Eventually the fash will slip up, lose their discipline and/or feel confident to use street confrontation. It would be very naive of anti fascists not to have a physical force capability.

The last major large set peice mobilisation for AFA (i may be wrong in this was Feltham), which at best was a stalemate. The problem for this could possibly be because a continuity of this sort of activity was not kept up.

That is why this recent activity against the BPP is very important, proving that individuals in and around Red Action/IWCA/AFA wrong!!!

 

[The Black Hand]

Its a long war.
The IWCA's success is beginning to diminish because they have no real politics, a romanticised idea of the working class and a populist image.

Antifa may have problems just falling into subcultural politics, wihich Anarchist(predominantely) organisations always have.

Eventually the fash will slip up, lose their discipline and/or feel confident to use street confrontation. It would be very naive of anti fascists not to have a physical force capability.

The last major large set peice mobilisation for AFA (i may be wrong in this was Feltham), which at best was a stalemate. The problem for this could possibly be because a continuity of this sort of activity was not kept up.

That is why this recent activity against the BPP is very important, proving that individuals in and around Red Action/IWCA/AFA wrong!!!

Well said.

 

[The Black Hand]

It isn't any coincidence that that the BNP won't stand in Oxford Leys as the IWCA have the anti New Labour vote rather than them.

Not sure what this call for backbone is all about from the post about.

Give over. THe IWCA don't stand where the BNP do.

 

[nino_savatte]

i don't think anyone disagrees on this thread that they DESERVE a kicking .. it is whether this is the right tactics to defeat fascism more in general ..

we are told of attacks on fascists in barnsley and south yorks yet the fasc did very very well in barnsley rotherham and sheffield .. it does not work generally

Well, your ideas don't seem to be working. If your 'tactics' worked, Barnbrook wouldn't be on the GLA.

You're rather too fond of criticising those who don't share your ideological position and your bizarre, but poorly thought-out critiques, of the 'left'.

 

[Charlie Drake]

Give over. THe IWCA don't stand where the BNP do.

The only time they've gone head to head with the BNP was in a ward in Thurrock, May 2007. That time the BNP were a few hundred votes in front.

 

[Kenny Vermouth]

Thats how you deal with them:

I just like the fact that it's two bunches of cunts kicking lumps out of each other while back in the real world we're all getting on with life, enjoying the Bank Holiday, preparing for work (I'm sure unemployment levels are higher than average in these two groups), visiting friends and so on.

Well done everyone involved.

 

[Zonk]

I just like the fact that it's two bunches of cunts kicking lumps out of each other while back in the real world we're all getting on with life, enjoying the Bank Holiday, preparing for work (I'm sure unemployment levels are higher than average in these two groups), visiting friends and so on.

Well done everyone involved.

What utter bollocks.

 

[Bakunin]

What utter bollocks.

Seconded.

 

[The Black Hand]

The only time they've gone head to head with the BNP was in a ward in Thurrock, May 2007. That time the BNP were a few hundred votes in front.

and the iwca got f all.

Yeah - that's the point. They don't stand where the BNP do.

 

[durruti02]

The IWCA tactics have just seen them lose two seats.

That indicates surely that "door knocking 'anti racist' respectibity" has failed?

no it is that the vast majority of the left would rather kill their mother than do serious local work meaning the iwca were isolated .. and there is no socialism in one country as you know .. you get smashed ..

 

[durruti02]

Its a long war.
The IWCA's success is beginning to diminish because they have no real politics, a romanticised idea of the working class and a populist image.

Antifa may have problems just falling into subcultural politics, wihich Anarchist(predominantely) organisations always have.

Eventually the fash will slip up, lose their discipline and/or feel confident to use street confrontation. It would be very naive of anti fascists not to have a physical force capability.

The last major large set peice mobilisation for AFA (i may be wrong in this was Feltham), which at best was a stalemate. The problem for this could possibly be because a continuity of this sort of activity was not kept up.

That is why this recent activity against the BPP is very important, proving that individuals in and around Red Action/IWCA/AFA wrong!!!

nonsense afaics .. and if the recent election does not show this to you i do not know what could ..

 

[Nigel]

nonsense afaics .. and if the recent election does not show this to you i do not know what could ..

Like I said, Its a long War!!!!!!