Migrant Workers "good" for the economy

[cockneyrebel]

tbaldwin is a happy man then.

 

[tbaldwin]

Would you go for standard gun turrets, barbed wire and guard dogs for the borders?

What about deportations? Maybe a hotline to grass people up, mass round ups, deportation camps etc

And for the internal immigration police would they have guns as well or just standard tsar guns and pepper spray? Those immigrants don't always let you take 'em down easy.

Sorry CR i think that is for another thread. But i will happily answer it if you want to start up a thread on it?

 

[JoePolitix]

Sorry CR i think that is for another thread. But i will happily answer it if you want to start up a thread on it?

Yeah right, we're running a little low on the immigration threads.

 

[tbaldwin]

Yeah right, we're running a little low on the immigration threads.

The fact is some of those threads seem to go on for ever and still some people jump to all kinds of lazy conclusions. Personally i think it would be better to have more specific threads and hopefully a bit shorter ones that stay on topic as much as possible.

 

[tarannau]

The fact is some of those threads seem to go on for ever and still some people jump to all kinds of lazy conclusions. Personally i think it would be better to have more specific threads and hopefully a bit shorter ones that stay on topic as much as possible.

Reading through this thread it's difficult to escape the conclusion you're a delusional numbnut or someone on the wind-up. That's the worst example of the pot calling the kettle black I've seen in a very long time. And you've the blooody cheek to pontificate to others?

So far on this thread you've brought your usual load of irrelevant tosh about doctors and nurses up repeatedly, along with your usual generic slurs about liberals, all of which hold no real relevance to the OP and thread subject.

Perhaps the only way these threads can stay on topic is if you actually think before you post, not recite the usual Balders pile of the same old crap on every thread. Or better yet, you could just stay quiet or say something relevant or original for once.

 

[tbaldwin]

tarannau the fact that you think bringing up the question of rich nations taking doctors and nurses from poorer nations is irrelevant, on a topic about the supposed benefits of migration,says a lot about you.

 

[tarannau]

No Balders, it does nothing of the sort. It does, however, show that you're a particularly stupid one trick pony. You talk about making more specific threads that stay relevant and avoid diversions, yet when the OP specifically talks about this:

This has fuelled concerns that workers willing to take low-paid jobs in sectors such as construction, farming and domestic service would depress wages and force other low-skilled workers out of jobs.

Publishing a new report, the TUC said these fears had not been vindicated, partly due to the strength of the economy in recent years.

...You start waffling on about pilfering doctors and nurses. Yet a fucking again.

You're a thick irrelevancy to discussion.

 

[tbaldwin]

No Balders, it does nothing of the sort. It does, however, show that you're a particularly stupid one trick pony. You talk about making more specific threads that stay relevant and avoid diversions, yet when the OP specifically talks about this:



...You start waffling on about pilfering doctors and nurses. Yet a fucking again.

You're a thick irrelevancy to discussion.

Go to any Hospital and see some of the low paid workers in those hospitals. You really are exposing your shallow politics tarannau....

 

[tarannau]

Go to any Hospital and see some of the low paid workers in those hospitals. You really are exposing your shallow politics tarannau....

Are those low paid people in hospitals Doctors?

yes/No?

Are you talking shit again

YES

 

[durruti02]

What have you done more than most for immigrants then?

i'll wager that, as a shop steward in a low wage job, i have signed up to the union and helped more migrants than most on urban .. more than you for example

p.s. in the last few months i've also done hundreds of pounds of free work for a asylum seeker refugee .. but hey whatever .. stick to your pejudice of me

 

[durruti02]

1)You don't create a fair and equal society by closing borders and artificially supporting wages. We're sadly past that point.

2)All this gumph about 'strong sustainable communities' essentially boils down to the language of insularity and stagnancy.

3)We're based on a core and periphery global model - our relative prosperity in Blighty is based on the exploitation and cheap labour of others, both historically and today.

4)The big beef for me is the rising income disparity between rich and poor, but that's unfortunately far too common in all countries, even ones with low immigration - take, for example, India with its massive grinding differences between the unbelievably poor and ridiculously rich.

5)I can't think of one country where protectionist, insular society has actually benefited the people. Look at Australia and their points system and horrible attitudes - plenty of racists, support for the NF in huge numbers and a crappy 'Larrikin' culture in the main. Or France, whose economy is rapidly going down the toilet, with a fucking right-wing egomaniac coming to power as a result.

6)You shouldn't try and stop people making a decent life for themselves, especially when many are owed it as a legacy of empire. Us Brits have gained from the association and profits for long enough and it's pie-in-the-sky to suggest you can compete in the global economy by artificially buffering lower wages and restricting the labour supply.

7)I'd still like to run over Digby Jones and those two-faced CBI cunts mind...

1) i do not support closing borders .. i support forcing bosses top employ local at decent wages a la TELCO etc

2) rubbish

3) og so that is allright then!

4) but in this country this is being fueled by rich white spivs getting richer and richer by exploiting migrants?

5) scandanavia .. knotted posted a report about scandanavia where a social contract between labour and the state means better wages and conditions for indiginous workers AND for migrants, though there are less than in spivUK .. was on the 'pull causes current immigration' thread ..

6)?? que ?? but there are 3 million on the dole here .. why do you dismiss so lightly their lives??

7) and of couse cbi are totally pro immigration as it boosts their profits ..

look mate i appreciate why you have misundestood whete i am coming from .. until recently it is teh raight who oppose immigration .. but i am looking at it as to why teh bosses are so in favour and as to how we can rebuild communities that will benefit them all .. you seem ( sorry if wrong) to take a fatalistic attitude about capitalism .. i do not .. as i said months ago to MC5 should we be forever the flotsam and jetsam of capitalism?

p.s. when i said 'spivvy cheap labour' i did not mean that those people, that that labour was spivvy .. i meant ( and check all the other times i have used the word spiv) that it is spivs who are encouraging and creating this cheap labour

 

[audiotech]

i'll wager that, as a shop steward in a low wage job, i have signed up to the union and helped more migrants than most on urban .. more than you for example

p.s. in the last few months i've also done hundreds of pounds of free work for a asylum seeker refugee .. but hey whatever .. stick to your pejudice of me

You don't know what I've done, or likely to do. I too am a shop steward in a low paid job - big fucking deal.

I'm not prejudiced against you, I just think that shifting the topic to talk about your good self and how you've 'helped' an asylum seeker is a sneaky swerve to dodge some difficult questions posed to you by tarannau and others.

Btw, I was working with Iranians fleeing persecution from the Shah's regime in the 70's and Chileans escaping Pinochet's dictatorship (unpaid), but I feel I don't have to shout about it, or use it for my own ends.

 

[durruti02]

You don't know what I've done, or likely to do. I too am a shop steward in a low paid job - big fucking deal.

I'm not prejudiced against you, I just think that shifting the topic to talk about your good self and how you've 'helped' an asylum seeker is a sneaky swerve to dodge some difficult questions posed to you by tarannau and others.

Btw, I was working with Iranians fleeing persecution from the Shah's regime in the 70's and Chileans escaping Pinochet's dictatorship (unpaid), but I feel I don't have to shout about it, or use it for my own ends.

i do not doubt what you have done in the past .. i was talking about now and ONLY in response to constant accusation that imply i am anti immigrant .. i suspect in that context you would ALSO say what you have done yes?

 

[audiotech]

i do not doubt what you have done in the past .. i was talking about now and ONLY in response to constant accusation that imply i am anti immigrant .. i suspect in that context you would ALSO say what you have done yes?

No. I would have answered the question put to me.

 

[becky p]

i do not doubt what you have done in the past .. i was talking about now and ONLY in response to constant accusation that imply i am anti immigrant .. i suspect in that context you would ALSO say what you have done yes?

But MC5 has admitted hardly anybody ever goes to his union meetings. Perhaps something or somebody is putting them off? Perhaps he should sit down and consider what or who it could be?

 

[ViolentPanda]

But MC5 has admitted hardly anybody ever goes to his union meetings. Perhaps something or somebody is putting them off? Perhaps he should sit down and consider what or who it could be?

Perhaps someone is sreading an unsubstantiated rumour that you're going to be there?

 

[cockneyrebel]

Durutti I really don't get what you're saying on this sometimes.

Tbaldwin has set proposals. He wants harsh border controls, deportation snatch squads to round up families, detention camps circled with barbed wires and watch towers etc Now however much I totally disagree with that, and however utopian it is in terms of creating an immigrant free society (from his point of view a desirable thing), they are practical suggestions, however right wing.

You say that you essentially support freedom of movement but you think immigration is bad. But where is the practical use in that? To be honest from a socialist point of view immigration in and of itself is neither good nor bad, it depends on the causes, wishes of the people involved etc

If you want to fight the negative way in which capitalists try and exploit immigration then I'm sure we agree that we need to fight for a good minimum wage, stronger trade unions, better labour laws etc etc

So I don't know why you need to even comment on whether immigration is bad because capitalists exploit it. It's about as useful as saying that wage labour is bad because it is an expression of capitalist exploitation.

 

[audiotech]

But MC5 has admitted hardly anybody ever goes to his union meetings. Perhaps something or somebody is putting them off?

Erm, even if I had said the above, which I didn't, I've seen many more people attending meetings who would not have gone anywhere near a union meeting a few years ago.

 

[audiotech]

Perhaps someone is sreading an unsubstantiated rumour that you're going to be there?

That'll be the day, too busy on the comedy circuit.

 

[nino_savatte]

1) i do not support closing borders .. i support forcing bosses top employ local at decent wages a la TELCO etc

2) rubbish

3) og so that is allright then!

4) but in this country this is being fueled by rich white spivs getting richer and richer by exploiting migrants?

5) scandanavia .. knotted posted a report about scandanavia where a social contract between labour and the state means better wages and conditions for indiginous workers AND for migrants, though there are less than in spivUK .. was on the 'pull causes current immigration' thread ..

6)?? que ?? but there are 3 million on the dole here .. why do you dismiss so lightly their lives??

7) and of couse cbi are totally pro immigration as it boosts their profits ..

look mate i appreciate why you have misundestood whete i am coming from .. until recently it is teh raight who oppose immigration .. but i am looking at it as to why teh bosses are so in favour and as to how we can rebuild communities that will benefit them all .. you seem ( sorry if wrong) to take a fatalistic attitude about capitalism .. i do not .. as i said months ago to MC5 should we be forever the flotsam and jetsam of capitalism?

p.s. when i said 'spivvy cheap labour' i did not mean that those people, that that labour was spivvy .. i meant ( and check all the other times i have used the word spiv) that it is spivs who are encouraging and creating this cheap labour

Once again, you view immigration wholly from a capitalist perspective. You keep saying that you "do not support closing borders", yet you often contradict this position by insisting that immigrants are being used to drive down wages. Anyone who has looked at these arguments closely will know that this is simply another way of saying "end immigration".

 

[becky p]

Erm, even if I had said the above, which I didn't, I've seen many more people attending meetings who would not have gone anywhere near a union meeting a few years ago.

I don't believe you.

 

[becky p]

Once again, you view immigration wholly from a capitalist perspective. You keep saying that you "do not support closing borders", yet you often contradict this position by insisting that immigrants are being used to drive down wages. Anyone who has looked at these arguments closely will know that this is simply another way of saying "end immigration".

It might possibly be that it is a capitalist world. Well maybe not where your from.

 

[nino_savatte]

I don't know why you bother

becky p
This user is on your Ignore List.

You've got fuck all to say.

 

[becky p]

I don't know why you bother

You've got fuck all to say.

But still you keep posting the same ridiculous accusations day after day. Anybody who disagrees with you is dismissed as either racist and or stupid.

You need some help to understand this may not be the case. I am here to help.

 

[nino_savatte]

Another non-contribution from beckypisher.

 

[audiotech]

I don't believe you.

I'm not particularly suprised at that comment, as you clearly believe in nothing.

 

[tbaldwin]

Durutti I really don't get what you're saying on this sometimes.

Tbaldwin has set proposals. He wants harsh border controls, deportation snatch squads to round up families, detention camps circled with barbed wires and watch towers etc Now however much I totally disagree with that, and however utopian it is in terms of creating an immigrant free society (from his point of view a desirable thing), they are practical suggestions, however right wing.

.

With respect CR those proposals are not right wing....Though they are definetely illiberal....
But Socialism is not going to be possible if we try to pretend that personal freedom can take precedence over the will and interests of the majority......

And how exactly can we discourage economic migration without a carrot and stick approach?

And you know i really don't want an "immigrant free society" whatever you mean by that....I'm a son of an immigrant my lovely wife is a daughter of immigrants...my lovely kids are mongrels and my lovely girlfriend is the daughter of immigrants......

 

[JoePolitix]

my lovely wife is a daughter of immigrants...and my lovely girlfriend is the daughter of immigrants......

Baldrick you dog!

 

[ViolentPanda]

But still you keep posting the same ridiculous accusations day after day. Anybody who disagrees with you is dismissed as either racist and or stupid.

Just because nino has dismissed you as stupid doesn't mean it isn't true, becky.

You need some help to understand this may not be the case. I am here to help.

That's a really kind offer to make to nino, but I have to ask; is someone who has shown herself unable to engage with the issues on this forum in anything other than a sneering and shallow manner actually equipped to help anyone understand anything?

 

[tbaldwin]

Baldrick you dog!

Do you want me to post a few more jokes on the BM thread in general?