Urban75 Home About Offline BrixtonBuzz Contact

Middle East; War timeline

Sorry I completely missed that entry (July 14th) So I agree that following your criteria it wouldn't need mentioning more than once (not that I'm backing down on my opinion that the timeline is unhelpful mind!!)

Just one more general point for you moono - can I suggest you use the term "Neo-Zionist" rather than "Zionist". I see in another thread you claim to use the term "Zionist" to describe those who are pursuing the Greater Israel but Zionist actually just means people who want a homeland for the Jews. Therefore if you believe Israel should be the homeland for the Jews technically you're a Zionist but it in no way implies they also want Gaza, Golan and the West Bank to form part of that country - those people are Neo-Zionists...
 
Sorry CB, but as I've discussed with tangentlama previously, if the moderate 'Zionists' you describe take umbrage at having the term used as a label for murdering fascists then they need to make their presence felt more than the murdering fascists do.
 
My point is 'Zionist' isn't a negative thing (ie wanting Israel to exist) but 'Neo-Zionist' is a negative thing. I just don't think it helps your cause to use 'Zionist' for dramatic effect when talking about the Israeli government when many people don't see 'Zionism' in the same way you do. And on top of all that you're not even (imo) refering to Zionists but to Neo-Zionists (which are very different)

Just because bin Laden refers to them as Zionists doesn't mean you have to copy!!
 
You're missing my point, CB. 'Zionism' is becoming more closely associated with fascism than at any time since the 1970s, when the UN outlawed it as being 'racist'. Every time the Zionist government commits a fascist act the reputation of Israelis shrinks.
'Neo-Zionism' would suggest that something within Zionism has changed. In fact, despite the existence of some moderates, the movement still continues its policy of 'brutal compulsion'.

While we're at it though, let's adopt another muslim term . 'Western powers', ' the coalition', 'America and the UK', etc. are a bit long-winded and nondescript. 'Crusaders' fits the bill nicely. It has an historic element, an aggressive element , a religious element and contains the implication that history might well repeat itself.

'The Zionists and crusaders' might sound like a phrase uttered by someone about to leap off a minaret but it's actually quite accurate and concise. I think I'll adopt it.

Thank you for the inspiration, CB.
 
Update;

:25 January: Hamas defeats moderate Fatah in Palestinian elections.

10 April: EU severs political contact and suspends direct aid to Palestinian government.

9 June: Hamas calls off 16- month military truce after seven members of a Palestinian family are killed on a Gaza beach by Israel shell. Four days later a family of nine die in Israeli missile strike in Gaza.

25 June: Palestinian militants launch raid into Israel, killing two Israeli soldiers and kidnapping Cpl Gilad Shalit.

29 June: Israel troops, having pushed into Gaza, detain Hamas lawmakers and cabinet members. Air strikes.

12 July: Hizbolla captures two Israeli soldiers and kills eight. Israel calls it 'act of war' and widens Gaza offensive, killing 24 civilians. Air strikes destroy 10 bridges in Lebanon, and hit power stations and a water facility.

13 July: Israel bombs Palestinian Foreign Ministry and Bierut airport. Navy blockades Lebanese ports. The US vetoes condemnation of Israeli attack on Gaza.

14 July: Israel bombs Beirut-Damascus road and Shia suburbs of Bierut: 67 Lebanese civilians dead. Hizbollah launches 130 missiles at Israel, killing at least two civilians. Israeli ship is hit by an explosives- filled drone, four dead.

15 July: In the village of Marwaheen - 500 yards from the Israeli border, an air strike kills up to 13.

16 July- US vetoes call for ceasefire between Israel and Lebanon.

July 26th- Hizb Allah kill 13 Israeli soldiers.
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2006/07/26/1153816236162.html


Israeli air strike kills UN observers

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200607/s1697018.htm

July 28th 2006

US President George W Bush again dismisses calls for an immediate truce

July 29th- Israel rejects UN aid truce call

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/5226996.stm

July 29th- Lebanese death-toll tops 600 as dozens of children are killed by Israeli air strike.
Civilians storm UN.
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/6334D333-E2A2-4F66-81E6-42FD108FD8BB.htm
Click to expand...
 
Lest we forget...

I'd like to add:

8th February 2006, Hamas suggests that peace with Israel is possible so long as they withdraw to 1967 borders.

See here.
 
Update:

25 January: Hamas defeats moderate Fatah in Palestinian elections.

10 April: EU severs political contact and suspends direct aid to Palestinian government.

9 June: Hamas calls off 16- month military truce after seven members of a Palestinian family are killed on a Gaza beach by Israel shell. Four days later a family of nine die in Israeli missile strike in Gaza.

18 and 19 June: Israeli politicians meet with US officials (according to the link below) to discuss invasions of Gaza and Lebanon and receive Cheney's backing.

25 June: Palestinian militants launch raid into Israel, killing two Israeli soldiers and kidnapping Cpl Gilad Shalit.

29 June: Israel troops, having pushed into Gaza, detain Hamas lawmakers and cabinet members. Air strikes.

12 July: Hizbolla captures two Israeli soldiers and kills eight. Israel calls it 'act of war' and widens Gaza offensive, killing 24 civilians. Air strikes destroy 10 bridges in Lebanon, and hit power stations and a water facility.

13 July: Israel bombs Palestinian Foreign Ministry and Bierut airport. Navy blockades Lebanese ports. The US vetoes condemnation of Israeli attack on Gaza.

14 July: Israel bombs Beirut-Damascus road and Shia suburbs of Bierut: 67 Lebanese civilians dead. Hizbollah launches 130 missiles at Israel, killing at least two civilians. Israeli ship is hit by an explosives- filled drone, four dead.

15 July: In the village of Marwaheen - 500 yards from the Israeli border, an air strike kills up to 13.

16 July- US vetoes call for ceasefire between Israel and Lebanon.

July 26th- Hizb Allah kill 13 Israeli soldiers.
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2006/07/26/1153816236162.html


Israeli air strike kills UN observers

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200607/s1697018.htm

July 28th 2006

US President George W Bush again dismisses calls for an immediate truce

July 29th- Israel rejects UN aid truce call

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/5226996.stm
Click to expand...

http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=4852000&postcount=13
 
In the interests of accuracy, the opinion of Hamas regarding acceptance of an Israeli State was never, to my knowledge, an official Hamas policy. It was still a lively debate when the beach shelling ended Hamas' truce.

Also, the true outcome of discussions between Netanyahoo and Bush, and also between Blair and Olmert, can't be stated factually, imo. If a 'timeline' is to serve as a useful document it has to be accurate and relatively guesswork-free. That's only my opinion of course, as the chronicler in this thread, which was only started in order to prevent the immediate falsification of events by the Zionist propaganda machine.
 
Well, there was the document drawn up by the 'Parliament in Prison'. That was under discussion, accepted by some, rejected by others, and I don't recall any clarifying statement from Hamas in Exile. I could be wrong though.
 
Update;

::25 January: Hamas defeats moderate Fatah in Palestinian elections.

10 April: EU severs political contact and suspends direct aid to Palestinian government.

9 June: Hamas calls off 16- month military truce after seven members of a Palestinian family are killed on a Gaza beach by Israel shell. Four days later a family of nine die in Israeli missile strike in Gaza.

25 June: Palestinian militants launch raid into Israel, killing two Israeli soldiers and kidnapping Cpl Gilad Shalit.

29 June: Israel troops, having pushed into Gaza, detain Hamas lawmakers and cabinet members. Air strikes.

12 July: Hizbolla captures two Israeli soldiers and kills eight. Israel calls it 'act of war' and widens Gaza offensive, killing 24 civilians. Air strikes destroy 10 bridges in Lebanon, and hit power stations and a water facility.

13 July: Israel bombs Palestinian Foreign Ministry and Bierut airport. Navy blockades Lebanese ports. The US vetoes condemnation of Israeli attack on Gaza.

14 July: Israel bombs Beirut-Damascus road and Shia suburbs of Bierut: 67 Lebanese civilians dead. Hizbollah launches 130 missiles at Israel, killing at least two civilians. Israeli ship is hit by an explosives- filled drone, four dead.

15 July: In the village of Marwaheen - 500 yards from the Israeli border, an air strike kills up to 13.

16 July- US vetoes call for ceasefire between Israel and Lebanon.

July 26th- Hizb Allah kill 13 Israeli soldiers.
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2006/07/26/1153816236162.html

Israeli air strike kills 4 UN observers

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200607/s1697018.htm

July 28th 2006

US President George W Bush again dismisses calls for an immediate truce

July 29th- Israel rejects UN aid truce call

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/5226996.stm

July 29th- Lebanese death-toll tops 600 as dozens of children are killed by Israeli air strike.
Civilians storm UN.
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/6334D333-E2A2-4F66-81E6-42FD108FD8BB.htm
Click to expand...
 
Bernie Gunther said:
I'm not sure either, but the stories at the time made it pretty clear that at least some of the leaders of Hamas were up for talking about it.
Click to expand...
It was my opinion that the Israeli soldier was kidnapped and taken to Gaza by those elements of Hamas that didn't want this compromise with Fatah and wanted to provoke Israel into retaliating in order to ensure that compromise was never reached...
 
Bernie Gunther said:
Also, 'Hamas indicates willingness to accept Israel's right to exist' June 22nd.

source
Click to expand...

So it can't be argued that Hamas hasn't tried to start a peace mission, only to be thrown back into the lion's den by the Israelis, who seem completely uninterested in peace and even living next to countries they don't agree with.

Sooner or later some nut will get a nuclear device and THEN maybe they will listen and try and negotiate! Here's to hoping!
 
CyberRose said:
It was my opinion that the Israeli soldier was kidnapped and taken to Gaza by those elements of Hamas that didn't want this compromise with Fatah and wanted to provoke Israel into retaliating in order to ensure that compromise was never reached...
Click to expand...
Maybe, I agree it's a plausible motivation.

Didn't the kidnapping involve digging a great big long tunnel though? That doesn't on the face of it sound like something you could do in a couple of days in response to the 'threat of peace' ...

edited to add: yep, just found a link. It was half a mile long.

source
 
I think that the tunnel was a contingency plan. There were others, according to the Israelis.
I believe that the military wing of Hamas acted to capture an Israeli, with or without the knowledge of the political wing, because the Zionist slaughter on the beach demanded that SOMETHING must be done in the face of the total failure of the international community to bring the Zionists to heel.

I also believe that the Hizb Allah capture of two Israelis was precipitated by much the same stimuli, the failure of the international community to defend Palestine against collective punishments.
 
Bernie Gunther said:
Maybe, I agree it's a plausible motivation.

Didn't the kidnapping involve digging a great big long tunnel though? That doesn't on the face of it sound like something you could do in a couple of days in response to the 'threat of peace' ...

edited to add: yep, just found a link. It was half a mile long.

source
Click to expand...
If they dug the tunnel specifically for that task then yes, it would have taken a long time, but moono suggests there were a few tunnels that might be in place for general combative purposes? It's just the timing of the operation that makes me think what I think. I honestly believed from what was hinted that Fatah and Hamas (who were nearly at war with each other before this all kicked off) were close to a compromise to recognising Israel and then all of a sudden this soldier is captured, Israel responds exactly as you'd expect, and we've heard no more of the Fatah/Hamas negotiations since...
 
moono said:
I also believe that the Hizb Allah capture of two Israelis was precipitated by much the same stimuli, the failure of the international community to defend Palestine against collective punishments.
Click to expand...
Hizballah aren't a Palestinian group tho are they? They were not established to drive Israel into the sea like Hamas were. They were established to drive the Israelis out of Southern Lebanon...
 
moono said:
It's the same war, different fronts.
Click to expand...
Well that's oversimplifying it somewhat (altho I did the same in my previous post!)

Both the Palestinians and Hizballah were fighting Israel for the liberation of territory occupied by Israel. However, Hizballah were fighting for the liberation of Lebanese territory, not for Palestinian territory (don't get me wrong, Hizballah certainly sympathise with the Palestinian aims and would lend their support to acheiving those aims, but they were, imo, secondary to the Lebanese aim)

Hizballah have been reletively quiet since the Israeli withdrawal and now they do this? Just seems to be a bit out of the blue...
 
hizbellah never said they would, Isreal did

anyone got a copy of these seven points of argreement between the lebs government and the Hizbullah,

which include syria ceding land(back to Lebanon)... eh? excuse me says syria, when do I get a say.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

ska invita
US policy towards 'the middle east' this century
Replies
8
Views
223
Yossarian
Yossarian
tim
  • Poll Poll
Should we have a MENA (Middle East and North Africa ) forum or sub-forum?
Replies
11
Views
357
Serge Forward
Serge Forward
Yuwipi Woman
America vs. Everyone Else: Trade War 2025
54 55 56 57 58
Replies
2K
Views
61K
teqniq
teqniq
brogdale
Trump administration accidentally includes journalist in its war plans
6 7 8 9 10
Replies
298
Views
9K
quiet guy
Q
hash tag
War is a crime?
2
Replies
53
Views
2K
A380
A380
Back
Top Bottom