Microsoft's new 'Courier' tablet/booklet mobile device

[editor]

I fundamentally disagree - outside of designers and Wacom tablets, folks shouldn't be asked to go back to stylii any time soon. Retrograde step imo, introducing an extra level of confusion and fudge to the UI. And something else to lose as well.

Last night I played Scrabble on Eme's Palm Centro after playing it on my iPhone solidly for months. Guess which interface was the fastest and the easiest to use?

There's loads of times I've wished my iPhone had a stylus as fingers aren't particularly precise things on small screens, and unless you really persevere at it, are awful for sketching and writing on.

I'm withholding judgement until I see the thing, but I think the twin screen concept is a real breath of fresh air. It certainly looks a lot more innovative and exciting than some similar products currently being touted.

 

[Crispy]

If it's capacative touch, then the stylus needs a special nib. If it's resistive touch, then anything will work as a stylus, but multitouch is out, as is anything approaching smoothness. Do we know which they're using yet?

Seems weird to still have the stylus tbh. WM7 is all about fingers, with big buttons and physical interaction.

 

[editor]

Seems weird to still have the stylus tbh. WM7 is all about fingers, with big buttons and physical interaction.

I just showed Eme the videos and she *loved* the fact you could sketch on the thing, as do I.

I'd have no problem using both a stylus and fingers and reckon a lot of people will feel the same - in fact some iPhone users have started using both courtesy of snack sausages used as iPhone styluses (!).

 

[tarannau]

I have no problem using both, but it's just daft and archaic for the vast majority of purposes. If your controls are that small that it requires near-pinhead control then it's almost always a sign that the interface is designed badly or the screen's overbusy.

 

[LC1980]

Touch screen things have always annoyed me, i'm glad developments are shifting away from them.

 

[editor]

I have no problem using both, but it's just daft and archaic for the vast majority of purposes. If your controls are that small that it requires near-pinhead control then it's almost always a sign that the interface is designed badly or the screen's overbusy.

It could be argued that if you need massive, screen-hogging child-like buttons to accomplish any task, then perhaps there's room for improvement in the interface.

It's obvious the Courier's not for you, but I'm finding the concept very interesting indeed. I'd rather be interacting with a small, book-like device in a cafe or pub than laying a tablet flat on the table for all to see, and as a designer, I'd find the stylus a lot easier for sketching out ideas than smudging a finger around.

 

[themonkeyman]

I just showed Eme the videos and she *loved* the fact you could sketch on the thing, as do I.

I'd have no problem using both a stylus and fingers and reckon a lot of people will feel the same - in fact some iPhone users have started using both courtesy of snack sausages used as iPhone styluses (!).

erm - http://www.topiphoneresource.info/best-iphone-gloves/

 

[tarannau]

I have no idea if it's for me or not, given that it's nowhere near released yet.

Graphics tablets have existed for years as have stylii, neither of which have gained mass traction with joe public. For specific users perhaps, but there's a limited number of people who'll use them anything other than awkwardly or as some kind of etch-a-sketch style novelty.

Sell them as optional extras by all means, but potentially compromising the UI to entertain stylii when you've already got 2 screens of finger real estate seems to show a lack of confidence and clarity in the interface already.,

 

[LC1980]

It could be argued that if you need massive, screen-hogging child-like buttons to accomplish any task, then perhaps there's room for improvement in the interface.

It's obvious the Courier's not for you, but I'm finding the concept very interesting indeed.

I think iPhone fanboys are worried that their toy will look very basic now. There's only so many people you can impress with silly 'apps' that have no real use.

 

[Kid_Eternity]

I never thought I'd say this but this thing from MS actually is more interesting and exciting to me than the iPad....

 

[Crispy]

Just doing some basic scaling off those new images, the courier seems to be about 11.5x7.5 inches, unfolded, and 5.75x7.5 folded. The ipad, for comparison is 9.5x7.5. The courier's screens seem to be 8" and the ipad has a 9.7" screen (the courier has 35% more total screen area)

I'll be buying tablet of some sort, I think, and this thing is very interesting. Will definitely provide some much-needed competition for the ipad.

 

[tarannau]

MS do give good demos though. Rememeber that flashy multotouch table thing amongst others?

It's the execution and not serving up a compromised dogs dinner thing they struggle with more

 

[editor]

Sell them as optional extras by all means, but potentially compromising the UI to entertain stylii when you've already got 2 screens of finger real estate seems to show a lack of confidence and clarity in the interface already.,

How is offering both finger and stylus input showing a "lack of confidence" and displaying a lack of "clarity"?



From what I've seen of the Courier interface it seems extremely straightforward and quite revolutionary, and as a note taker it looks leagues ahead of the current competition (if it delivers on its promises, natch).

 

[Crispy]

If the stylus is only used for handwriting/drawing and there are no interface elements too small for fingers and there are alternative input methods in case you lose the stylus and those methods work well and don't compromise the user experience, then I can see it working

 

[tarannau]

You don't think that Stylus and multitouch controls don't beneft from specific interface designs then? Either allowances are made for bigger fingers, the stylii features are limited, or there are compromises and possible inconsistencies in handling both

 

[editor]

If the stylus is only used for handwriting/drawing and there are no interface elements too small for fingers and there are alternative input methods in case you lose the stylus and those methods work well and don't compromise the user experience, then I can see it working

Well, exactly.

Some interfaces on my iPhone would really benefit from the ablity to use a more precise stylus. As it is, some task lists are almost unusable because they stretch on for miles on-screen with their massive tick boxes.

 

[Pie 1]

I really like this Courier thing.

As I've said before, I would welcome a combination of stylus & multi touch - for creatives, a pen like device is still a very instinctive tool. (also, some of apps such as photo post processing apps & their finer features like rubber stamp/clone tools, are pointless if a meaty finger is your only control.

expected to run the mobile OS Windows Mobile 7

This is what will unfortunately probably mean I don't go near it with a 10 ft stylus.
I hope I'm proved wrong 'cause I really want one.

 

[Bob_the_lost]

Vapourware.

That's all that needs to be said.

 

[editor]

Vapourware.

That's all that needs to be said.

Nah, it's too far down the line and there's been too many "leaked" videos for this to be vapourware.

The technology seems do-able, the concept looks sound and MSoft need something to hit back at the iPad with. And if they don't run with it someone else will, and I'm not bothered who makes it!

 

[Bob_the_lost]

Leaked videos mean nothing, afaik they're all CGI ones too aren't they? Not a single one of a working prototype in action?

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Not a single one of a working prototype in action?

No. I don't believe they have the hardware development in secret to launch in Q3/4 either; these things take time. As I said on the other thread, all it indicates is that MS seem to be exploring new UI ideas and product concepts, which is a good thing of course, but it's not an actual product (and it certainly wouldn't make me think twice about getting an iPad - one thing I can pretty much guarantee is that it will not be Mac compatible anyway).

 

[Bob_the_lost]

I'd love to see some decent UI in a format that isn't tied to such a god awful system as the app store. Sadly I don't think it's likely in the short term and not really probable in the medium term either.

Nor am I convinced they've got the drive to take it through. The windows 7 phone does show a hint of light at the end of the tunnel but i'm afraid MS will learn the wrong lesson: Innovate with the UI and you piss off your core customers (Office 2007).

 

[Lemon Eddy]

The whole idea of a two screen UI using a blend of finger touches and a fucking stylus promises to be made of fail, particularly given that it's from MS. Looks lovely though

Because the Nintendo DS has been a complete failure, due to it's two screen UI using either touch or stylus?

Leaked videos mean nothing, afaik they're all CGI ones too aren't they? Not a single one of a working prototype in action?

How long do you reckon it will take HTC to knock out a gadget like that, and for either MS to add splitscreen functionality to Mobile 7, or Google to add it to Chrome/Android?

Seriously, I will be gobsmacked if we do not see a device like this out this year. Microsoft have been banging on for sometime that they're predicting the death of the desktop, and people instead using cloud based services accessed by simple, mobile devices. This fits into their model. Google & HTC are both about to get serious legal attacks from Apple, and will be looking eagerly for a way to show that they're not just following apple's ideas and form factors.

Well, here you have a form factor that has many clear advantages over a single large tablet form, and fits in with the goals of a number of apples competitors. That means its only a matter of time before someone brings it to market.

 

[Crispy]

The hardware is the easy bit.

 

[editor]

There's already similar twin-screen devices hitting the market, although none have the elegance of the Courier - but that's only a matter of time.

I'm really excited by this book-like format. I couldn't see myself wanting to sit in a cafe tapping way on an iPad, but the Courier seems to offer a great form factor....

 

[Lemon Eddy]

The hardware is the easy bit.

No. One reason Apple has done so well is that hardware is an easy thing to do wrong. It's easy to make a device that will physically do a job, but to come up with a design that is actually enjoyable to use and desirable takes a lot more work and insight. That said, there's a lot of smart people out there, and a lot of industrial design types who'd love a chance at Jonathan Ives title.

But I guess what you're saying is that the real trick is to get the software right. Now that's very true, but none of the tricks shown in the concept videos are actually hard to implement, or even not already available. With multi touch monitors at work I'm already able to flip content from one panel to the next, or open a document on my desktop and have it open in a another display. My biggest concern from the videos (and Mobile 7) is that there's quite a lot displayed that seems gimmicky rather than clean and effective. If either MS or Google can avoid the temptation to include every possible bell and whistle, and keep the UI as coherent as possible, then there's no real reason preventing this sort of system coming out soon.

 

[Kid_Eternity]

There's already similar twin-screen devices hitting the market, although none have the elegance of the Courier - but that's only a matter of time.

I'm really excited by this book-like format. I couldn't see myself wanting to sit in a cafe tapping way on an iPad, but the Courier seems to offer a great form factor....

If it's anywhere near as good as that demo I'll be seriously tempted by this, love the dual screen and the ability to turn it round and type like it's a laptop.

 

[Bob_the_lost]

No. One reason Apple has done so well is that hardware is an easy thing to do wrong. It's easy to make a device that will physically do a job, but to come up with a design that is actually enjoyable to use and desirable takes a lot more work and insight. That said, there's a lot of smart people out there, and a lot of industrial design types who'd love a chance at Jonathan Ives title.
.

Apple use off the shelf hardware. They just limit the options their software will run on. It's all software.

The ipod's hardware is/was midrange, the only way it shone was the scroll wheel. That's it and I doubt anyone would put it's amazing sucsess down to a flaky and problem prone feature like that (in early versions).

Apple macs are rarely that amazing performance wise, frequently they suck donkey balls. There have been issues with the laptops in terms of hardware, the ipod touch had a shitstorm over the screen, no one cares. It's all down to the software.

 

[Lemon Eddy]

Apple macs are rarely that amazing performance wise, frequently they suck donkey balls. There have been issues with the laptops in terms of hardware, the ipod touch had a shitstorm over the screen, no one cares. It's all down to the software.

I'm sorry, but I completely disagree.

People pay a premium for Apple gear because the user experience is (generally) more pleasing than it's competitors, in terms of both software and hardware. There's plenty of touchschreen, media playing, web browsing phones out there - but I challenge you to name one that has the same instant appeal in touch and feel?

As for the iPod, I'm afraid you're very wrong. The simple, industrial design (all white perspex front, 4 backlit buttons, stainless steel back) means it's still viewed as a design icon - and the scroll wheel was a fantastic feature that really pissed all over the interface of every other mp3 player on the market at the time.

As for the software, there was very little to tell it apart from other machines. Funnily enough they all allowed you to view by artist/album/title, they all allowed you to drill into a folder. I'll need to do some digging, but I even recall that Apple were sued by another firm for infringing some patent they had on such a UI.

As such, I have to yet again state that the idea that the success of a product is just down to the software it runs on is absolutely wrong. The initial wow factor has a lot to do with the initial appearance and feel of a device, and that's where apple has often got things absolutely right. For instance, the choice of a wider/slimmer form factor for it's phones, recognising that it's more pocket friendly. The use of a scrollwheel for flicking through long lists, single handed (far quicker than a button, and much better for telling if someone is trying to scroll quickly or slowly). The use of accelerometers to tell the orientation of a device. Light level sensors to control backlights...for portable devices, these issues are often more useful/distinctive for buyers than the seemingly logical main ones. The lack of SD card support, the inability to change battery, the ridiculous lack of support for bluetooth...many factors that logically should have really put people off were actually ignored on the grounds of how good they felt in the hand, how good they looked, how well they worked on a day to day basis.

 

[Bob_the_lost]

You seem to think that the UI is down to hardware. It's not, not alone and not even for the most part.

I'm sorry, but I completely disagree.

People pay a premium for Apple gear because the user experience is (generally) more pleasing than it's competitors, in terms of both software and hardware. There's plenty of touchschreen, media playing, web browsing phones out there - but I challenge you to name one that has the same instant appeal in touch and feel?

Software, all software.

You don't buy apple because the keyboard has a nicer layout, because it's got excellent key response, because the mouse is more sensitive ergonomic and better weighted. Media playing isn't down to hardware, (well it is but that's way over the level of this discussion and apple don't do particulary well there either), web browsing isn't down to hardware. It's not bloody hardware.

There is nothing special about the ipod's screen, it's a nice one but it's not the best res, biggest or unique in being resistive.

There is literally nothing special about apple desktops or laptops anymore, with the exception of software. Even the iphone et. al use a variant of the ARM core that everyone else uses. Even when they were using the Motorola PowerPC chip they were reliant on the software, because their hardware sucked. By the time G4 rolled out the inability to scale the PPC was so horrific that it was a joke trying to pretend they were competitive.

As for the iPod, I'm afraid you're very wrong. The simple, industrial design (all white perspex front, 4 backlit buttons, stainless steel back) means it's still viewed as a design icon - and the scroll wheel was a fantastic feature that really pissed all over the interface of every other mp3 player on the market at the time.

The scroll wheel was good, no question but it's a bit big to claim that it was the scroll wheel alone that made the ipod so sucsessful.

the initial appearance and feel of a device, and that's where apple has often got things absolutely right.

Feel? They pay attention to the ergonomics but it's the software when you try to do something that really makes or breaks it.
It's not the presence of an accelerometer that makes the iphone cool, it's the fact that "there's an app for that".

So: Apple; no or little unique hardware (depending on model) but what's widely accepted the best UI around. Which one do you think is going to be the telling difference?

It's the software, the hardware just gets you to the race, the software wins it.

Edit: now why does this matter? MS have shown a very very hit and miss approach to software. Windows mobile sucked donkey balls, although 7 looks ok. Vista was a disgrace, although SP2 (W7) is pretty nice. The Zune was a flop and the XBox 360 UI is only mediocre imo. The demos are of slick smooth software. If the software is unreliable, it's going to bomb, if the software isn't as slick then it'll bomb and that's just assuming they ever release it, which is a big if. No if MS want to win the tablet race they need to come out with something that beats apple at it's own game and get the OS perfect. Then use it's leverage with software houses to get every possible application and remote desktop program they can ported over. That's how they beat apple, "Want to run word on your tablet? There's no app for that, buy a courier"