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Microsoft Windows 7 discussion

untethered said:
Icons are generally less legible than text labels.
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Have you actually looked at the video demo?

It doesn't sound like you have.

The icons are large and clear, and present easy to identify thumbnails of any open programs or documents. It combines elements of both OSX and Vista to create what looks like a really nifty way of navigating desktops.
 
editor said:
Have you actually looked at the video demo?

I don't think you have.
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I can't see a moving demo. Where is it?

editor said:
The icons are large and clear, and present easy to identify thumbnails of any open programs or documents. It combines elements of both OSX and Vista to create what looks like a really nifty way of navigating desktops.
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A marginal improvement at best.

Meanwhile, almost no home users have effective backups and many businesses don't either. A good backup system like Time Machine would be far more valuable than minor UI tweaks. Better still, how about a full versioned file system?

On the same lines, why can't an OS provide seamless syncing between two (or more) resources like Dropbox?

What I've seen so far of Windows 7 doesn't solve any major problem anyone actually has.
 
untethered said:
I can't see a moving demo. Where is it?

A marginal improvement at best.
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You don't think you might be displaying just a teensy bit of an anti-Windows agenda here?

You've not even seen the thing in action and yet you're still telling me that I'm wrong to think it's has any merit at all because you've already declared it to be only a "marginal improvement at best."

What ever happened to doing some research first before making your mind up?
 
editor said:
You don't think you might be displaying just a teensy bit of an anti-Windows agenda here?
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Who knows? I run Vista mostly. It works, mostly. This seems to be more of the same.

editor said:
You've not even seen the thing in action and yet you're still telling me that I'm wrong to think it's has any merit at all because you've already declared it to be only a "marginal improvement at best."
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Have you actually used this operating system for any appreciable period of time? Or even at all?

editor said:
What ever happened to doing some research first before making your mind up?
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I could ask you the same question. Would you buy a house on the basis of an estate agent's video?

Minor UI improvements won't persuade me to upgrade. Major features that solve real, major problems would. I haven't seen any announced yet, but there's time, of course.

While I wouldn't wish to stifle your obvious enthusiasm I think you're being just a little bit too easily impressed by this.
 
untethered said:
I could ask you the same question. Would you buy a house on the basis of an estate agent's video?
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I certainly wouldn't be condemning a building for having no value when I hadn't seen it or even bothered to research it.
Isn’t the new Windows 7 user interface just a coat of paint slapped over the Vista UI?

Short answer: no. The build I have to work with is very Vista-like, missing the new Start menu, desktop, and taskbar enhancements. The demos I’ve seen here at PDC use more recent builds where those features are available. Those features will reach users in the form of a beta “early next year.”

In the past 48 hours, I’ve had a chance to get a closer look at those new UI features. One thing becomes obvious after only a few minutes of playing with the new interface: The Windows 7 design team has paid an enormous amount of attention to small details and have focused on workflows and end-to-end experiences, not just on dialog boxes and feature sets. The result feels comfortingly familiar to any Windows user, although the overall experience is often significantly different when you break down its small details.
http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=579
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Anyway, so the upshot is that I'm convinced, even at this early date, that Windows 7 is gonna be a winner. The only question left is, when will Microsoft launch the thing. The talk has been late 2009. My guess is that the real answer depends on the economy. Taking a page from its favorite talking point of the 1990s, I'm betting that Microsoft will launch Windows 7 when its customers say they're ready -- ready to buy it.
http://www.informationweek.com/blog/main/archives/2008/11/windows_7_looki.html
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Windows 7 might be shit. Who knows? But the new task bar still looks good to me. Maybe you try watching it?
 
untethered said:
In The Humane Interface, Jef Raskin suggests that modern OSes are flawed in that they run applications that are (locally) modal. The affordances in one application (or even in one context of an application) are not necessarily available in another. His solution is to eliminate applications entirely and provide an OS in which content can be manipulated with a discrete set of commands or "transformers" which are installed as required and available in all contexts.

Hard to see how this would work in practice.
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I think that would be similar to the line of thinking that Apple tried with OpenDoc back in the mid-90s if you ever got to play with it.
 
editor said:
Well, that and all the other reviews, screengrabs and videos that you haven't bothered to look at, of course.
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Are they all as fact- and analysis-free as this one you recommended?

http://www.informationweek.com/blog/main/archives/2008/11/windows_7_looki.html

"Look at me! I've got a Windows 7 preview! It's cool!"

No, let's be serious and look at the facts.

1. "The OS installed in around 35 minutes, with only two or three restarts"

You only do it once, most users don't ever do it. No big deal.

2. "Windows 7 takes up less disk space than Vista."

At around £75 for 1TB at current prices (let alone what they'll be when it launches), the difference probably accounts for about 30p of savings. Gosh!

3. "a cool, Aero-graphics-based OS"

Fact-free puff.

4. "great connectivity to devices (cameras, printers, phones)"

Vista doesn't seem to have a problem connecting to my cameras, printers or phones.

5. "I'm betting Windows 7, streamlined as it is, will be a no-brainer for business, even given that its hardware requirements are more like Vista than like XP."

I'm betting that businesses still won't have a compelling reason to upgrade until MS forces them to with restrictive licensing agreements.

6. "judging from the smaller footprint of the OS -- that Microsoft has done a lot of ground-up rewrites of the guts of the code".

And how does this translate into user benefits?

7. "the upshot is that I'm convinced, even at this early date, that Windows 7 is gonna be a winner. The only question left is, when will Microsoft launch the thing."

I'm glad you're convinced. I've yet to hear one compelling reason at least in this piece why anyone should upgrade from either XP or Vista.
 
untethered said:
Are they all as fact- and analysis-free as this one you recommended?
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When it comes to "fact- and analysis-free" comment, your gem about the shortcomings of the task bar - that you hadn't even bothered to look up - surely took the biscuit!

Still, once thing I've learnt from this exchange is that you're not really interested in researching anything on this topic - you just like to keep your prejudices stoked up. I mean, why else would you completely ignore all the links I'd posted up earlier on? Or not even bother to look up the task bar video? It's a bit weird, to be honest: surely you have to see something first and understand what it does before damning it.

But here's some of the links again. It might be an idea to read them this time.
Paul Thurrott's SuperSite for Windows has probably the biggest analysis: his Windows 7 Preview is in five parts, four of which have been posted so far. He says: "Clearly, Windows 7 is to Windows Vista as was Windows XP to Windows 2000. And that's true on a number of levels."
Active Win also goes to town, with more than 13,000 words on a single page. There, Andre Da Costa excitedly concludes:
It's safe to say I am overwhelmed, overjoyed and most of all excited about Windows 7. This is the release of Windows everybody has been waiting for, it's what Vista was meant to be and beyond that. Windows 7 puts the user first; it's about going back to the fundamentals of what an operating system must do. Managing and maintaining your PC is exceptionally seamless in Windows 7 and users will appreciate the tremendous improvements and advancements this update will offer on both existing and new hardware form factors in the future.
​
Gizmodo also has a long page, Windows 7 Walkthrough, Boot Video and Impressions, with lots of illustrations.
Ars Technical has several pieces, including First look at Windows 7's User Interface, Understanding Windows Live Essentials in Windows 7, Windows 7's streamlined UAC, Windows 7 management features will make IT admins grin, More on the Windows 7 UI: new taskbar will be mandatory, and Windows 7 Libraries under the microscope.
Ars accepts that "Windows 7 will not contain anything like the kind of far-reaching architectural modifications that Microsoft made with Windows Vista." However, it says: "the new UI takes the concepts that Windows users have been using for the last 13 years and extends them in new and exciting ways," and "the extent of these interface changes makes it clear that this is very much a major release."
The Windows Team's blog has Post PDC Keynote: What are people saying about Windows 7?, with links and a selection of favourable quotes.
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Crispy said:
It's confusing.

There have been 3 windows lineages.

DOS Shells:

Windows 1
Windows 2
Windows 3
Windows 3.11

Dos-Windows Hybrids:

Windows 95
Windows 98
Windows 98SE
Windows ME

NT:

NT3.1 (which looked like Windows 3.1)
NT4 (which looked like '95)
Windows 2000 (NT5)
Windows XP (NT5.1)
Windows Vista (NT6)
Windows 7 (NT6.1)

So this will be the 14th major release, or the 10th non-dos release, or the 6th NT release.

Microsoft really should adopt a sane versioning system like everyone else. Point releases for updates, whole number updates for fundamental technology updates. eg. the Shells should have been Windows 1.0, 1.2, 1.3 and 1.4. By that reckoning, XP should be 3.4 and this new one should be 3.6
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um, technically it is NT 3.51, not 3.1... basically the least pleasant Microsoft OS that I've ever ever used (I've not used Windows 3.0, or 2 tho) combining NT techy bang head against wall techyness with a barely useable windows 3.1 interface)

erm I'm a div.. there was a nt 3.1
 
oops! typo on my part there :)
and yes, it's hideous. NT4 is still pretty nice. I was still using it in 2002
 
In answer the the rather dumb post about the Windows Icon in Vista....it makes a hell of a lot more sense than hitting a button labelled "Start" to turn something off!!
 
XP was 5.1 inside (being an update of Windows2000, which was 5.0)
So this is an update of Vista, like XP was to 2000.
You'd rather install XP than 2000 wouldn't you?
 
Crispy said:
XP was 5.1 inside (being an update of Windows2000, which was 5.0)
So this is an update of Vista, like XP was to 2000.
You'd rather install XP than 2000 wouldn't you?
Click to expand...

heh but 2000 was better than Me. (and i know of firms that never went off of 2000)
 
Interesting overview of Windows 7 here: http://www.techradar.com/news/softw...-know-about-windows-7-493051?src=rss&attr=all

Windows 7 uses the same kernel as Windows Server 2008 R2 (which is based on the kernel used in Vista, Server 2008 and Vista SP1), but that doesn't mean that there haven't been any changes. Similarly, Mac OS X and the iPhone may use the Mach kernel that Rick Rashid (the head of Microsoft Research) wrote 25 years ago, but that doesn't mean that Apple's operating system and revolutionary smartphone are at all comparable to the technology that the code was originally written for. The code within both kernels has been replaced and updated over the years.
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I'll install it when the beta is ready. I like new toys. I also like the eye candy. XP looks Early Learning Centre when I use it now. I've used Vista from pre-beta right through to now and it's been superb. Superior to XP, for me. I appreciate that I'm far from a typical case, though.
 
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