MI5's 2000 terror suspects

[fela fan]

Maybe i've run out of ammunition!

Fair enough.

I just remain deeply suspicious of government activity, and politicians' behaviour.

I also hold them down as deeply criminal in their actions. And when that's the case, all possible means are used to avoid being brought to book for those crimes.

And that means finding out who the dissenting voices are and silencing them. History is littered with such people being sought out and taken out by those in power.

 

[zoltan]

Final post

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getDoc.do?pubRef=-//EP//NONSGML+REPORT+A5-2001-0264+0+DOC+WORD+V0//EN

As its EU its Not a good read, but as definative as anything youll get officially. but :

Chapter 13

"13. Conclusions and recommendations

13.1. Conclusions

The existence of a global system for intercepting private and commercial communications (the ECHELON interception system)

That a global system for intercepting communications exists, operating by means of cooperation proportionate to their capabilities among the USA, the UK, Canada, Australia and New Zealand under the UKUSA Agreement, is no longer in doubt. It may be assumed, in view of the evidence and the consistent pattern of statements from a very wide range of individuals and organisations, including American sources, that the system or parts of it were, at least for some time, code-named ECHELON. What is important is that its purpose is to intercept private and commercial communications, and not military communications.

Analysis has revealed that the technical capabilities of the system are probably not nearly as extensive as some sections of the media had assumed. Nevertheless, it is worrying that many senior Community figures, in particular European Commissioners, who gave evidence to the Temporary Committee, claimed to be unaware of this phenomenon.

The limits of the interception system

The surveillance system depends, in particular, upon worldwide interception of satellite communications. However, in areas characterised by a high volume of traffic only a very small proportion of those communications are transmitted by satellite. This means that the majority of communications cannot be intercepted by earth stations, but only by tapping cables and intercepting radio signals. However, inquiries have shown that the UKUSA states have access to only a very limited proportion of cable and radio communications, and, owing to the large numbers of personnel required, can analyse only an even smaller proportion of those communications. However extensive the resources and capabilities for the interception of communications may be, the extremely high volume of traffic makes exhaustive, detailed monitoring of all communications impossible in practice.

The possible existence of other interception systems

Since intercepting communications is a method of spying commonly employed by intelligence services, other states might also operate similar systems, provided that they have the required funds and the right locations. France, thanks to its overseas territories, is the only EU Member State which is geographically and technically capable of operating a global interception system by itself. There is ample evidence that Russia also operates such a system.

there you go

 

[rich!]

Can i just get this bit sorted out: "Every international telephone call, fax, e-mail, or radio transmission can be listened to..."

Is this right or not?

That's actually not that hard.

GSM mobile phone calls are encoded to somewhere around 1-2kByte/second.

If 1 billion people (20% of the planet) are on the phone at the same time, that's 1 terabyte per second, or two hard drives a second.

So if 4 IBM lorries with 10k hard drive each arrive every day, they'd not have (much of) a problem.

In practice, what you would do is log all calls from some people, and log the fact of a call from all people. Then when an incident occurs, you look at call traffic patterns in the run-up to the incident. This gives you a whole list of suspects who did different things before the incident with their communications, which you can then turn into a list of possible suspects to log next time...

(There are other more sophisticated traffic analysis things you can do, but you'd need to read books about WW2 and codebreaking for that)

The traffic analysis stuff looks a lot like multiplying insanely big arrays over GF(2), which is why all US-designed CPUs that end up being sold to spooky organisations end up with find-first-set and count-bits-set instructions - they're really handy for doing that...

 

[fela fan]

Zoltan, you've bashed me down mate. I've no answer. I offer my condolences, er, congratulations!

Enough of the bloody golf balls.

 

[zoltan]

Zoltan, you've bashed me down mate. I've no answer. I offer my condolences, er, congratulations!

Enough of the bloody golf balls.

Also know where you live now, as weve been tracking you every day when you replied to our bait statements. Good work boys! another dissenter to be taken out

Fela - Expect the knock on your door sometime soon...

 

[fela fan]

Also know where you live now, as weve been tracking you every day when you replied to our bait statements. Good work boys! another dissenter to be taken out

Fela - Expect the knock on your door sometime soon...

It's too late, they've just barged in here, and are yanking me, the fucking bastards, they're yanking me away from my keyb

 

[detective-boy]

It's just too unworkable and massive.

You just don;t know the technology that MI5 have though ... That lot's a piece of piss mate! Have it analysed, cross-reference and filed in alphabetical order in about 3 milliseconds ...

 

[detective-boy]

It most certainly exists, and the reasons for it are clear enough.

As is the fact that you haven't got the faintest fucking idea what it does or how it does it ...

Could you have a look out the window and see if the sky is falling???

 

[detective-boy]

But i'd guess a hell of a lot of it is down to leg work, you find suspect A who's got links to radical groups and you see who they hang out with...

And THAT is where the dozens / hundreds / thousands / millions of people come in - to analyse, consider, cross-reference and research all the things caught in the net and try to make sense of them ... the people who would need to be housed somewhere, to be paid somehow and to be "hidden" amongst us by having "pretend" jobs to go out to every day as cover.

All of which fela fan is studiously ignoring every fucking time I mention it ...

 

[detective-boy]

How can you explain away what is said in this report?

Maybe it's sloppy use of language and "listen" meant "scan" or something like that?

Maybe it's just bollocks?

Maybe "Andrew Bomford" knows about as much about what he's fucking writing as you do?

Maybe "Andrew Bomford" IS you?

 

[detective-boy]

I'm not thinking about echelon in terms of google or what computers can do, coz that is outside of my understanding abilities.

I sometimes think a sharp fucking pencil would be beyond your understanding abilities ...

 

[MikeMcc]

...I'm not thinking about echelon in terms of google or what computers can do, coz that is outside of my understanding abilities. I"m thinking about it in terms of what the likes of the USGs and UKGs might be developing this echelon for. It seems to me that they want more help in their monitoring of people for intelligence purposes.
..l.

So, they develop tools to help with the missions of MI5, SIS, NCIS, NCS, etc, what's new?

 

[fela fan]

So, they develop tools to help with the missions of MI5, SIS, NCIS, NCS, etc, what's new?

Technology with which to help out mike. Technology is just about constantly new considering the speed at which it progresses.

 

[kyser_soze]

Oh like when they told us that the brothers arrested and shot in London where child molesters...of course Scotland Yard never leaked that little snippet to the press to cover their backsides after they fucked things up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! but i guess what you actually mean is that leaks per sey can only come from there end of the fence.....blacken peoples names in the need for security and to hell with the consequences...

Of course, it could simply be that info was released by the CIC in order to cover their own arse internally and try and deflect criticism - it doesn't need to be some 'state' thing going on about security, merely arse covering...

 

[MikeMcc]

Technology with which to help out mike. Technology is just about constantly new considering the speed at which it progresses.

But it is the duty and mission of those organisations to develop intelligence to protect the 'National interest'. An element of that has always been spying on the population at large, different societies just do so to differing degrees.

 

[kyser_soze]

Which doesn't mean they ARE listened to...'can be' could easily mean that 'the capability exists'.

I do recognise that mate. It's bleeding obvious.

Well clearly NOT that obvious cos you ask the same thing again about 20 posts later:

Can i just get this bit sorted out: "Every international telephone call, fax, e-mail, or radio transmission can be listened to..."

Is this right or not?

You should go read up some stuff on intel gethering, what's good and what isn't, what techniques and technologies are used. Ultimately, all good intel will always come from on the ground operations - a few years back I saw an article about intel gathering which said that the US places too much emphasis and resource into remote data aquisition methods (sats, echelon, CARNIVORE etc) and not enough into fieldwork, whereas the European intel agencies had good fieldwork but not enough in terms of manpower.

The Russians (or Soviets as they were then), who it's generally regarded 'won' the spygames during the Cold War (in terms of deep penetration and knowledge of enemy thinking/secrets), had tons of both.