Men convicted over fertiliser bomb plot

[detective-boy]

Yes.

That's cool. So do I.

 

[detective-boy]

But I think it is actually the government which is pushing this idea of a risk free utopia, claiming we can (only) be safe if we let them curtail our rights.

If you look at what the politicians say, you may well be pretty right. If you look at what the police and security services actually say, you'd usually be wrong - although they are careful to avoid the "acceptable casualties" phrase they are equally careful to use words which do not guarantee anything (except that one day there will be another attack whcih gets through - John Stevens used to bore for England about it!).

But it is the media who I think are actually the worst at pushing the possibility of utopia - they whip the (largely undiscerning) public into a frenzy whenever anything happens - witness the feeding frenzy over the 7/7 connection over the last couple of days - it's always SOMEONE's fault.

 

[stickbat]

What a shame this country got rid of the death penalty.

 

[fela fan]

But it is the media who I think are actually the worst at pushing the possibility of utopia - they whip the (largely undiscerning) public into a frenzy whenever anything happens - witness the feeding frenzy over the 7/7 connection over the last couple of days - it's always SOMEONE's fault.

The media might be a symptom of it, but the root cause of course is religion. And it will always be someone else's fault while we have God.

Ya have to kill this myth off before we can take responsibility for our own actions.

 

[fela fan]

What a shame this country got rid of the death penalty.

It didn't. Just ask hundreds of iraqis.

 

[stickbat]

It didn't. Just ask hundreds of iraqis.

Sorry that concept was too hard for you to grasp...no one, not even iraqis have been given the death penalty in the UK for many many years.

 

[audiotech]

What a shame this country got rid of the death penalty.

Look at it this way, a number of innocent people are now alive thanks to it's abolition.

So, for them not a "shame" is it?

 

[stickbat]

Look at it this way, a number of innocent people are now alive thanks to it's abolition.

So, for them not a "shame" is it?

You could also say that a number of innocent people are now dead because shitehawk criminals that should have been executed weren't and on their release committed murder.

 

[audiotech]

You could also say that a number of innocent people are now dead because shitehawk criminals that should have been executed weren't and on their release committed murder.

So, you want to execute the innocent as well as the guilty?

 

[stickbat]

So, you want to execute the innocent as well as the guilty?

 

[audiotech]

A rolleyes smiley is not an answer to my question though is it? (NB: that's a more appropriate use of the rolleyes smiley).

 

[TAE]

If you look at what the politicians say, you may well be pretty right. If you look at what the police and security services actually say, you'd usually be wrong

The government claim that the police say that they need 90 days detention without charge. The implication seems to be that we will (only) be safe if that is allowed, alongside other drastic measures. Meanwhile the media make money out of selling people fear.

 

[TAE]

What a shame this country got rid of the death penalty.

You want to execute those who kill innocent on the tube?

 

[TAE]

The media might be a symptom of it, but the root cause of course is religion. And it will always be someone else's fault while we have God.

Ya have to kill this myth off before we can take responsibility for our own actions.

Something else would replace it. The problem is that people believe they have a duty to impose their own will on others through violence. You can see that through out history, with or without a belief in God being involved.

 

[fela fan]

Something else would replace it. The problem is that people believe they have a duty to impose their own will on others through violence. You can see that through out history, with or without a belief in God being involved.

Agreed, in so far as you go.

But if we agree that SOME people impose their will on others through violence, that obviously means that some people don't. And that is the case.

So, once we achieve a critical mass of those that live and let be, then things change.

Off topic, but wanted to reply to TAE.

 

[fela fan]

Sorry that concept was too hard for you to grasp...no one, not even iraqis have been given the death penalty in the UK for many many years.

No, no concept is too hard for me to grasp. But if you want me to grasp YOUR concept, then you should brush up on your diction and language skills per se.

It's fairly obvious what you meant as 'death penalty', but i chose to interpret it in my own way. Such is my choice as reader. Democracy of language if you like.

You either didn't get that, or were just bored.

 

[TAE]

But if we agree that SOME people impose their will on others through violence, that obviously means that some people don't. And that is the case.

Yes, with or without a belief in God being involved.

 

[fela fan]

Yes, with or without a belief in God being involved.

But in the name of Him, and in the name of Money, shit happens.

Not trying to be pedantic, but God has to be got rid of as a start towards a world of peace, not perpetual war.

Then fertiliser can be exclusively used once again for growing things, not destroying things...

 

[TAE]

Do you really think that most wars are caused by a belief in God, rather than by people's greed and/or paranoia?

 

[fela fan]

Do you really think that most wars are caused by a belief in God, rather than by people's greed and/or paranoia?

Not so directly, but the connection is there.

Wars are started coz of greed, yeah. But only a few men are involved in this. It's why the whole population lets them wage there wars that is the real question i think.

 

[TAE]

I think the Iraq war is a good case study. Why did the brits go along with it ?

 

[fela fan]

I think the Iraq war is a good case study. Why did the brits go along with it ?

Fylingdales in yorkshire.

Pine Gap the same reason for the aussies.