1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Meadow ends contractual obligations for player payments and support of club finances

Discussion in 'Dulwich Hamlet FC' started by Scolly, Nov 6, 2017.

  1. kevin Rye will not respond to specifics until/ unless he is given the handover from whoever hired him- and that is unlikely.

    There may be a further statement full of non commitment and non specifics, but don't expect to see any engagement here- engagement in PR terms is just a one way street for the dissemination of soft propaganda. It in no way means a dialogue.

    good luck DHFC
     
  2. clog

    clog have that you c

    *this*

    I question the benefit to us in engaging with this tbh.
     
    YTC, StephenMac, darryl and 1 other person like this.
  3. editor

    editor Taffus Maximus

    shame they didn't put a call out to see if there were any suitably qualified fans who could have reduced the cost of the build.
     
  4. editor

    editor Taffus Maximus

    Meadow thought it was a good idea, and Rye clearly thought he was the man for the job. All he's done so far his destroy his reputation and credibility as someone who supposedly understands social media and knows how to engage fans.
     
    PartisanDulwich likes this.
  5. Fingers

    Fingers From Tuscany SE22

    6k or not, it has certainly paid for itself many times over.
     
  6. Pink Panther

    Pink Panther Well-Known Member

    £6k is nothing in the context of an £80m development project. Suddenly it becomes an extravagance if said project doesn't happen!
     
    vornstyle76, Ludo, WillClunas and 5 others like this.
  7. Lyham

    Lyham Well-Known Member

    Yeah, saying "We paid £6,000" is disingenuous as it makes it sound like a sunk cost rather than a profit-making investment that was quickly recouped and now provides easy money
     
    WillClunas, editor, darryl and 2 others like this.
  8. Pink Panther

    Pink Panther Well-Known Member

    Yes. "You have to speculate to accumulate", and they've certainly done that.
    (Probably dodging their tax obligations along the way.)
     
  9. AndyF

    AndyF DHFC Beer Aficionado

    It doesn't matter in the scheme of things. It was done for two reasons; to reduce congestion in the clubhouse bar and to raise income. It works.

    What we need to know are the full running costs of the club including any that are apportioned or amortised, debt level and all income streams.
     
  10. clog

    clog have that you c

    Capital spend on ground improvements isn't dodging tax obligations. Not that I want to defend Meadow particularly but we could at least stick to criticising them for things they have actually done wrong.
     
  11. Bugpowder Dust

    Bugpowder Dust Well-Known Member

    Can bar must make several thousand clear profit on a home Saturday - 2,000 cans bought at £1 sold for £3.50 is £5k. Two home Saturdays a month - it's a goldmine.
     
  12. editor

    editor Taffus Maximus

    Isn't Meadow an offshore operation?
     
  13. Pink Panther

    Pink Panther Well-Known Member

    I'm cynical. I'll bet a US hedge fund has dodged every possible tax payment. These people leech off all of us.
     
  14. clog

    clog have that you c

    That’s a different issue. Capital spend is a perfectly reasonable thing to be tax deductible.
     
  15. clog

    clog have that you c

    I’m sure they have but capital spend isn’t tax dodging.
     
  16. darryl

    darryl this wasn't supposed to happen

    Greendale Property Company is Isle of Man-based, Meadow Residential LLP is UK-based, Healey Development Solutions (Dulwich) Ltd is UK-based.
     
  17. Lyham

    Lyham Well-Known Member

    Tax affairs are a completely separate matter - The problem is issuing public statements of their generosity when in fact the investment is mutually beneficial.

    On a related note, that bar would be even more profitable if managed correctly
     
    pompeydunc and darryl like this.
  18. Pink Panther

    Pink Panther Well-Known Member

    Tax "avoidance" then. It's all immoral when ordinary indiviiduals are paying 20% tax and big business isn't.
     
    EDC likes this.
  19. clog

    clog have that you c

    I guess I can understand why capital spend is offsetable, to encourage businesses to invest and grow. Some other stuff not so much. Anyway, it doesn’t really matter, £6k is such a small amount in the scheme of Meadow’s profit and loss account...
     
  20. DanBrown

    DanBrown Active Member

    Is my understanding of the current situation accurate?
    • Club was in debt, so sold the ground some time ago and it has passed through numerous owners
    • Hadley initially wanted to develop the current ground for housing, but build a new ground on Greendale, despite not actually owning Greendale
    • Southwark told them to do one, so they pulled out and ownership reverted to Meadow who were the initial investors
    • Hadley cleared all the club debts, now it's back with Meadow, the club is in debt again(?)
    • Meadow run all ancillary operations around the club, but not the club itself (despite funding the club from these ancillary operations)
    • Meadow are now saying they won't fund the club
    • The club makes more than enough money from gate receipts to fund it's ongoing operation
    • There is some sort of covenant on Champion Hill which states it should always be used as a sports ground
    It seems to me therefore, that the club is being loaded with debt, so that the club can be driven out of Champion Hill and the ground redeveloped.

    When I first heard of the Hadley plans, i always thought they were a bit suspect. It sounded like they wanted to build property on the ground by promising to move us somewhere they couldn't build property and we had no intrinsic right to build it. Nonetheless I do think that was their intention, but you should never trust a property developer and now meadow are going for the jugular.

    It also seems to me though, that there are only 3 realistic outcomes:
    • Club is forced out of Champion Hill and plays somewhere else
    • Club is forced out of Champion Hill and is shut down
    • Meadow are bought out and
    There are endless permeations around these 3 points, but it looks to me like these are the likely outcomes?
     
  21. AndyF

    AndyF DHFC Beer Aficionado

    It will depend on the product. Craft breweries (Beavertown and Fourpure) will be more than this plus it has overheads (power, lighting, staff).

    You're right in that it has significantly increased takings although on some games it isn't opened or can't be used to sell alcohol (FA games).
     
  22. Dulwich Mishi

    Dulwich Mishi Old Skool Terrace Dinosaur-embracing the new-veau!

    • My personal answers in BOLD, not speaking as a Club Official, but happy to stand corrected.
    • Club was in debt, so sold the ground some time ago and it has passed through numerous owners
    • The ground was sold by the Club in around 1971, and it has been sold several times since.
    • Hadley initially wanted to develop the current ground for housing, but build a new ground on Greendale, despite not actually owning Greendale
    • They knew that, as had been the case with previous proposals, with other companies, such as the Homebase application at the turn of the century. It's about coming to an agreement with the people who own the lease, namely the Council.
    • Southwark told them to do one, so they pulled out and ownership reverted to Meadow who were the initial investors
    • No, Hadley were in the driving seat, but it passed on to Meadows, I'm not sure how to describe that properly. Ownership has still always been with Nick McCormack, he enabled Hadley, then Meadows to operate the Club on his behalf.
    • Hadley cleared all the club debts, now it's back with Meadow, the club is in debt again(?)
    • Hadley certainly 're-arranged' the Club debts, and undoubtedly save the Club from folding. Where those debts are accountable to, once they have been paid, as in they were turned into 'loans' to be written off if the scheme went through I am not sure, but that's how I understand it. So if that's correct we have always been in debt.
    • Meadow run all ancillary operations around the club, but not the club itself (despite funding the club from these ancillary operations)
    • Yes, that's what they say. Despite the Football Club having no say in ANY Club expenditure, including the playing budget.
    • Meadow are now saying they won't fund the club
    • Not quite, they are saying they will only hand over money from matchday turnstile and bar takes...after their expenses have been taking for the matchday costs. Costs which the Football Club (as in the Football Committee) have no input or say over.
    • The club makes more than enough money from gate receipts to fund it's on-going operation
    • No, this is not the case, otherwise we would not be trying to raise funding through donations to cover costs. And under what they are offering, if there is a run of away games there is no way to page anything.
    • There is some sort of covenant on Champion Hill which states it should always be used as a sports ground
    • I believe so, but am not exactly sure what it is.


    That's how I interpret things, happy for people to offer other opinions, unless your name is Kevin Rye.
     
  23. Dulwich Mishi

    Dulwich Mishi Old Skool Terrace Dinosaur-embracing the new-veau!

    Again, my personal comments in BOLD

    • Club is forced out of Champion Hill and plays somewhere else
    • No future in this, with no income bar gate money, rent money would be expensive, as any club we shared with would have us over the proverbial barrel. Would keep us alive in the short-term, but I believe very short-term.
    • Club is forced out of Champion Hill and is shut down
    • Very much a possibility
    • Meadow are bought out and
    • Open to so many suggestive answers, but whoever it may be, we need Meadows to sell & then either stay at Champion Hill, or someone has another project to move next door.
     
    Radical-Cliff and AndyF like this.
  24. DanBrown

    DanBrown Active Member

    Thanks Mishi,

    This has obviously been going for some time so I was trying to get an overview of the situation.

    Basically, very worrying times then, and with Meadows eyes on the prize of 80 million quid, they're not going to give up on this easily and basically have no regard for what happens the club as long as they get a return on their investment. Seems like it needs a benefactor to buy them out with a bit of a profit for them to sweeten the deal, which is...unlikely.

    Also seems a bit like the situation at Leyton Orient.

    The end goal, whether it be Hadley or Meadow has always been the value of the land. What a disgraceful world we live in.

    Edit: No ideas about the process, but could the ground be listed as an asset of community value?
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2017
  25. Northants Dal

    Northants Dal Member

    Come on Rio and Anton, buy us!
     
    PartisanDulwich likes this.
  26. Radical-Cliff

    Radical-Cliff Old Spice

    Based on the club statement;

    "We were told that as of November 1st 2017, all financial management and payments would revert back to DHFC Ltd’s majority shareholder and Director, Nick McCormack."

    What does this mean? DHFC LTd get back the bar and rent income from facilities from Car Wash, Gym, Boxing, Squash, Functions and other rental income? This would help us know our real financial position.
     
  27. Radical-Cliff

    Radical-Cliff Old Spice

    Why won't they give back complete control of the facility and management?
     
  28. blueheaven

    blueheaven Well-Known Member

    As Meadow are effectively the club's landlords, can anyone explain what the club's rent situation is? If Meadow were paying the club's expenses, did that include rental payments (which I assume would have been due to Meadow from the club?)?
     
  29. PartisanDulwich

    PartisanDulwich Well-Known Member

    Of course Meadow could just develop housing on the car wash site and probably get back what they paid in
    but then again the "perceived" pot of gold of £80m for building across the whole of the present ground is to tempting for speculators
     
    vornstyle76 and Bugpowder Dust like this.
  30. cybershot

    cybershot Well-Known Member

Share This Page