Bernie Gunther
Fundamentalist Druid
My guess is that some arsehole will get elected and the world will have to put up with more of the same. Doesn't really matter which arsehole as far as I can tell.
McCain Versus Obama
- Thread starter mears
- Start date
dilute micro
esse quam videri
Bacon Lettuce and Tomato?
I was referring to black liberation theology and Rev Wright. I don't think it's going to set well with the average white american. If it stays in the media it'll hurt Obama.
Idris2002
Stay Alive in '25
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
I think McCain will slaughter Obama at the polls.
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
And why do you think that?
Vintage Paw
dead stare and computer glare
My pal follows the elections very closely. Studied it all at university, don't you know. Anyway, he reckons the same. Perhaps not slaughter, but that McCain is the safer choice for many at the polls.
However, we shouldn't forget the majority of voters come out and vote when they feel passionate about the issues. I'd wager more people feel passionately about voting in Obama, voting in the Dems, and voting out the GoP than do about voting in McCain. But then, I may be underestimating the amount who feel passionately about keeping out Obama.
Someone pass me a fence.
However, we shouldn't forget the majority of voters come out and vote when they feel passionate about the issues. I'd wager more people feel passionately about voting in Obama, voting in the Dems, and voting out the GoP than do about voting in McCain. But then, I may be underestimating the amount who feel passionately about keeping out Obama.
Someone pass me a fence.
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
I hope McCain wins, not only because he has more experience, but also because he was the target of one of the most nasty, most hypocritical Primary campaigns in living memory when Bush used his dirtiest tricks on him in 2000 (which is something that pretty much destroys the "third term of Bush" nonsense). Lets not forget there were serious rumours in 2004 about him running as Kerry's VP, he certainly isnt a neocon.
In addition, the policies he has come out with are in the vast majority of cases far better than anything Obama has come up with, he has more experience (both politically and he has actually served) and (most importantly) the events of UK history since 1997 have tought me at least to be severely sceptical of anyone who comes along and cites "Vote for Change" while being popular with the media.
While he did support the war in Iraq, I doubt very much he would have gone in if he had been President (that was pretty much down to the neocons and PNAC, after all), and even if he had it would have been far better run than it was. Wikipedia has a quote of his (which refers to Kosovo, but it IMHO carries across to Iraq) where he says:
Which is something that makes sense to me, far more than Obama's we-will-leave-but-might-come-back flammery.
Finally, it should not be overemphasised that Rush Limbaugh hates him, which is a pretty good endorsement imho.
In addition, the policies he has come out with are in the vast majority of cases far better than anything Obama has come up with, he has more experience (both politically and he has actually served) and (most importantly) the events of UK history since 1997 have tought me at least to be severely sceptical of anyone who comes along and cites "Vote for Change" while being popular with the media.
While he did support the war in Iraq, I doubt very much he would have gone in if he had been President (that was pretty much down to the neocons and PNAC, after all), and even if he had it would have been far better run than it was. Wikipedia has a quote of his (which refers to Kosovo, but it IMHO carries across to Iraq) where he says:
Which is something that makes sense to me, far more than Obama's we-will-leave-but-might-come-back flammery.
Finally, it should not be overemphasised that Rush Limbaugh hates him, which is a pretty good endorsement imho.
dilute micro
esse quam videri
Well you're right about that.
Right now I see McCain wining by a little but more than a few chads. I don't see a Reagan type landslide.A new poll had Obama/Hillary winning. I think McCain wants to let Obama pick first.
dilute micro
esse quam videri
But that's the whole thing with Hillary staying in for so long. There isn't unity in the Democrats. It's all divided up and we have yet to see how bad it will hurt Obama. Lots of democrats are fully behind Hillary and probably feel betrayed by whoever asked Obama to run. I'm sure this is far uglier behind the scenes. For the longest time Hillary was a sure thing for nomination then up pops a laughable longshot who rockets to the top. Howard Dean was on Stewart's The Daily Show and really looked a mess over this.
david dissadent
New Member
Americans are really deeply worried about the economy and the price of 'gas'. McCain is a sitting duck on the economy. The housing crash will play extreamly well in two states, Florida and California. Big patches of America are barely noticing the crash other than on the news but in those to ultra critical states its truly massive. Once he gets his campaign focused away from the primaries he should walk those two states.
His real problem will be with white lower and middle income "Reagan democrats" especialy in the South. His VP should be John Edwards (IMHO) who can really go a long way in those type states.
The election is Obamas to loose.
His real problem will be with white lower and middle income "Reagan democrats" especialy in the South. His VP should be John Edwards (IMHO) who can really go a long way in those type states.
The election is Obamas to loose.
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
How is McCain a sitting duck on the economy? His positions are better than Obama's.
david dissadent
New Member
The issue of economics is not something I’ve understood as well as I should,” he said. But, “I’ve got Greenspan’s book,” not exactly confidence inspiring. However he is running (last I seen) on the idea of tax cuts for business.
WSJ
His economic plans will not light a fire under right wing supporters and the left will feel that he will be cutting into social programs
http://useconomy.about.com/od/fiscalpolicy/p/John_McCain.htm
On a less detailed point he is vaulnrable of guilt by association of the republican handling of the economy over the past 8 years.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/189...-John-McCain-over-progress-of-US-economy.html
Obhamas economics may not be better to an economist but it sounds better to many Americans. He is more protectionist and sounds more hawkish on taxing the rich than McCain. That is what Americans want to hear. That and that there is a social security safety net underneath them.
gorski
customised free radical
It's shades of grey, either way...
Obama: http://leftthought.blogspot.com/2008/02/noam-chomsky-on-obama.html
http://ecox2x.com/Home/Videos/tabid/110/VideoId/26/Chomsky-On-Obama.aspx
H. Clinton:
On the overall picture, re. the so called "free-for-all capitalism"...: http://video.aol.com/video-detail/noam-chomsky-global-capitalism-and-its-discontents/690099820 - Noam Chomsky: Global Capitalism and Its Discontents
On McCain... well, I don't even wanna go there...
It's shite all the way, with a little bit less shitty option with Democrats but not by a great margin...
Obama: http://leftthought.blogspot.com/2008/02/noam-chomsky-on-obama.html
http://ecox2x.com/Home/Videos/tabid/110/VideoId/26/Chomsky-On-Obama.aspx
H. Clinton:
On the overall picture, re. the so called "free-for-all capitalism"...: http://video.aol.com/video-detail/noam-chomsky-global-capitalism-and-its-discontents/690099820 - Noam Chomsky: Global Capitalism and Its Discontents
On McCain... well, I don't even wanna go there...
It's shite all the way, with a little bit less shitty option with Democrats but not by a great margin...
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
Because even the Democrats alone can't give him a convincing majority.
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
Well you're right about that.
I'm talking about electoral college votes.
santa klaus
occasional saint
Wait, I think the tough competition between two Democrats is actually not as good for McCain as everybody says - IMHO it is a huge advantage for the Democrats.
Since Obama and Clinton both had to fight hard for EVERY state they both had to build up their organisations everywhere, get people involved, get a lot of new voters registered.
Hillary is going to give up pretty soon. Obama will pick a VP the Clintonistas can be happy with. Democrats will be united against McCain - he will have the "Clinton Machine" and the Obama movement against him.
Besides, he has got the issues against him. Most Americans want to end the Iraq war and the bad economy will not help him either. People want better health care and better education, too. McCain offers naught there.
I really feel sorry for McCain. He can´t win. There is no chance any Republican could win in November, not even with a lot of fraud like in 2000.
dilute micro
esse quam videri
How do you figure?
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
I don't understand what you mean by this.
dilute micro
esse quam videri
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
The Clinton/Obama competition is inefficient, but as far as Democrat voter support, it doesn't make any difference; they'll vote for Obama when he finally gets it. I can't see the squabbling higher up making that much difference before the election (after is another matter of course, but in practice it's not proved too bad in the past) It hasn't even, as far as I can see, really made much difference in terms of the Republicans being able to portray the Dems as divided - as I said they seem to be asleep at the wheel, at least relative to 2004.
dilute micro
esse quam videri
I see the same for the Republicans. I think they'll vote for McCain out of fear of Obama. But I'm sure there will be Clintonites that sit this one out especially if they think Obama will beat McCain anyway.
I wonder what Ann Coulter will do since she's not voting for McCain and Hillary is out.
I wonder what Ann Coulter will do since she's not voting for McCain and Hillary is out.
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
To an extent on the first point - I try to make a point never to underestimate US party tribalism - but supporters of incumbents in a time of problems have a particular issue compared to people who support challengers, in that they can see the problems but have difficulty saying that Their Team has nothing to do with them.
I think that there are very, very few rabid Clintonites who would actually not vote Democrat in the presidential, for the simple reason that they want the current regime out more than they are bothered by exactly how it happens.
It's not really about dedicated party supporters anyway. They tend to vote predictably so nobody cares that much about them once they've signed up.
Eh, Coulter is so early-2000s.
santa klaus
occasional saint
No, it´s very efficient in terms of getting people involved - that´s my whole point. We have seen record turnouts in these primaries. In a country where usually only 50% of the people vote that´s very good news. Obama will win by getting people to the polling stations who never voted before. He can win over votes from the Rebublican camp, too, while McCain will have a very hard time getting the Rebublican´s core voters to get out.
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
I see the argument, but I don't think that the bonus of getting people fired up for a candidate in advance of the election really justifies the internal money-wasting and conflict. There are a lot of resources which could have been better used motivating people in advance in some other way that have now been wasted on power struggles.
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
Personally, I think that there are democrats who will not vote for a black man. They might not vote republican, but they'll stay home, which is just as bad.
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
Which of his economic policies makes him a 'sitting duck'?
Similar threads
