Maybe It's The Veil?

[nino_savatte]

I don't have to take a poll, I've done plenty of my own reading.

I find it amusing that you would deny the existence of institutional racism in Israel, or that racism even exists there. Is Israel a model of ethnic harmony? Don';t answer that, because I don't expect you to produce anything that makes sense.

 

[T & P]

You gotta love rachamin18 don't ya? He tris to justify the existence of Israel thus:

I will also remind you that the UN ratified Israel into existence and that this existence is protected by International Law as legal and just. .

And then in the very next sentence in his long tirade, he says this:

"Illegal Occupation.": WRONG. illegality is determined in a court of law, not minority public opinion.

And what happened to the 45 fucking million UN resolutions establishing what everybody (not just a 'minority' as you claim- in fact even your faithful servant the USA says so) already knows, that the Israel is illegally occupying Palestinian land?

You're funny

 

[Gmart]

You gotta love rachamin18 don't ya?

And what happened to the 45 fucking million UN resolutions establishing what everybody (not just a 'minority' as you claim- in fact even your faithful servant the USA says so) already knows, that the Israel is illegally occupying Palestinian land?

You're funny

You don't understand!!!!!

He's got loads of sophisticated arguments which are supposed to distract the world from the fact that Israelis are invading Palestinian houses at will. Meanwhile the wall steals yet more Palestinian land every day.

And the justification is that they didn't register the land they lived on 'properly' at the right time, with the authorities he chooses to listen to.

Also they had the temerity to refuse to share the land when asked (not surprisingly) and so this also gives the Israelis justification to use violence.

They pay good lawyers a lot of money to avoid facing reality, and Rach will regurgitate it here by writing reams and reams while justifying it to himself.

In the meantime the civilised world waits for them to work it out, (though a case could be made that the US has failed in its duty by supporting Israel so blindly.)

 

[rachamim18]

TP: How would you find my two quotes to be at all conflciting? Israel WAS ratified by the UN. International Law DOES protect this exitence and make it perfectly legal. At the same time, International Law ALSO shows that Israel is NOT "occupying" the so called "WB." You are not making sense.


"What happened to all the UN Resolutions against Israel?": Well, ignoraing your use of expletives, I will be glad to tell you. GENERAL ASSEMBLY RESOLUTIONS are nothing but opnion pieces built on ideology. They not binding nor enforceable, they have nothing whatsoever to do with International Law.



Then, on top of this, they are authored , all of them, by nations who not only refuse to recognise Israel's mere existence but by nations in a state of declared war with Israel decades long! Who in their right mind would EVER expect any nation to follow a non-binding and detrimental directive from a stated enemy? that is beyond non-sensical.


As for "everybody knowing Israel is occupying land," ISRAEL IS OCCUPYING LAND. Specifically, it is occupying Golan and Sheba'a Farms. The UN however recognises that these two separate parcels of land are in International Dispute and that the other 2 parties aside from Israel refuse to recognise Israel's very existence let alone negotiate these issues and so it accepts ISraeli administration until such time as negotiations can be effected.

In terms of the so called "WB," which is what you are talking about, International Law DOES NOT say it. IF it did, you would at the very least see criminal charges at ICC. Where are the charges? Indictments? Trials? Convictions? Sentences? Anytime you xcare to answer is fine with me.


Glad you think I am funny, I aim to please. It is your world, I am just living in it.

Nino: I never said that racism does not exist in Israel, EVER. I DID say though that there is NO Institutional Racism in Israel and that is a fact. Israel has one of the strongest Hate Laws in existence and also has one of the strongest Affirmative Action Programmes in the world to boot.

 

[rachamim18]

G: "Israel is invading 'Palestinian' homes at will.":Tell me G, if crimes are in the process of being committed inside a home in the UK do police have the legal right to enter and intervene? They certainly do in the US and every other nation I have ever been in (and I have been in dozens). Israel enters the homes of terrorists, yes, without a doubt and thank G-D they do.


"The 'wall (sic)' steals more land every day.": I have addressed both the BARRIER and that specific claim BY YOU in another post. I will ask you to look at it for that response.


"Israel claims that the occupants of land taken by the Barrier did not register land properly at the time the authorties Rachamim chooses to listen to dfdirected them to register it.": No, not at all. The BARRIER only takes a modicum of land and does so, in cases where land is even privately owned, via Emminent Domain. This same law is used in the UK, US, and many other nations. Owners are paid market value. Please study the legal concept of Emminent Domain.

" 'Palestinians' had the audacity to refuse to shareland with Israelis when asked and now pay for that nerve.": If you mean when the nation was formed, Arabs owned very, very little land at all. You ned to review Ottoman Land Ownership practices as well as those of local Arabs. Almost all land was owned by the Sultan. When, in the mid 19th Century CE/AD private ownership was legalised it was channeled to minions of the Sultan who as absentee landholders simply allowed tradional methdos to continue.

Traditionally a Mukhtar (village chief) divided land betwen village clans who in turn divided it among extended families who in turn further sub divided it with every new male child reaching adulthood. Ultimate control of village land, aside from ownership by the absent aristocracy, awarded and reassigned land based upon continued cultivation which is the norm throughout the Arab World.

When foreign born Jews began moving back to the region they and charities that supported them bought land in bulk purchases from the actual owners, absentee land holders. Most land was relatively worthless and steeply overpriced. Jews managed to turn malarial swamp and scrublands into arable landw producing record crops and this is what led to the first strife.

Jews did not have to ask local Arabs to share anything since local Arabs very, very rarely owned a single thing. Most were enwcomers to the land themselves and as such competed for respurces in a desparate way.

"Israel pays lawayers good money...": And this is what? Bad? It is called LAWFUL. I know you have a problem with the law but as an adult you must learn to live iwthin society. Reberls are great when they are teens but sad when adults.

 

[T & P]

TP: How would you find my two quotes to be at all conflciting? Israel WAS ratified by the UN. International Law DOES protect this exitence and make it perfectly legal. At the same time, International Law ALSO shows that Israel is NOT "occupying" the so called "WB." You are not making sense.


"What happened to all the UN Resolutions against Israel?": Well, ignoraing your use of expletives, I will be glad to tell you. GENERAL ASSEMBLY RESOLUTIONS are nothing but opnion pieces built on ideology. They not binding nor enforceable, they have nothing whatsoever to do with International Law.

Nothwistanding the dozens upon dozens of UN resolutions vetoed by Israel's lapdog, Security Council resolution 242 does just that. Israel has been in violation of international law for more than 40 years. End of.

I could also mention 446 regarding the tumour-like illegal settlements infecting Palestine.

If Israel doesn't want to be seen as an international pariah perhaps it should start complying with the international law you're so fond of, instead of adding to its ever-growing catalogue of war crimes and breaches of international law and human rights.

 

[rachamim18]

TP: First, Sec. Council Resolution #242 is quite clear in both versions about any action be pursuant to a just and lasting peace and secure and recognised borders. Exceuse me but has Syria suddenly recognised Israel's existence? Right to Exist? In fact, Syria exists in a perpetual state of declared war with Israel. Ergo, since Syria is the only entity adressed in this Reoslution, aside from Israel of course, what would be your point? You make no sense.

Furthermore, the UN is neither the author of International Law nor its arbiter. That would be the Hague. Since Israel has never even been charged in any contrvention of International Law of any kind, how would you then imagine it is ghguilty of something?

If I might offer a friendly tip, it would be that you need to stop haunting propaganda websites, and start actually researching International Law as well as the Un Charter, Reolution #242, and a history of Israeli/Syrian Relations since 1947.


You could mention #446? Well by all means, PLEASE DO. There you will find jsut why 242 does not apply to anuthing remotely "PAlestinian." See, the UN has never recognised ANY sovereignity in either Gaza OR the so called "WB." Not theat the UN is an arbiter of I. L. as I said before, but that since you have the assumption that it is, explain jsut why "SEttlements" would be illegal if no sovereignity is recognised.

Your erroneous assumption is entirely based upon the supposition thast Geneva 49, Art.#49 addresses the issue perfectly, right (See how easy it is to deflate your ideas?)? Proplem with your supposition however is that 49#49 deals with the issue of legally defined occupation, i.e. impuned sovereignity. Israel is not comprimising any other nation's territorial integrity since I) There has never been a "Palestinian" Nation, let alone an Arab Nation on THOSE lands, and, II) The only nation to have EVER existed there were Jerwish Nations!!! We can reiterate a third principle while we are at it: III) Since no sovereignity is recognised for the lands in question, Israel as its territorial administrator, UNDER INTERNATIONAL LAW by the way, has any right it chooses as long as it does not arbitrarily seize privately and legally owned lands to do so.

Each and every "Settlement" was constructed upon land that was exhaustively searched for provenance specifically because of this concern and while some HAVE had Natural Expansion that HAS effected privately owned lands that were sometimes bought (at market value) under the principle of Emminent Domain and also , sometimes, with an equal or in soem cases near equal exchange of land on top of fees.

As you see, you do not have a leg to stand on.



As for war cirmes, etc? Why no charges? indictments? charges? convictions? SIMPLY PROPAGANDA.

 

[nino_savatte]

Nino: I never said that racism does not exist in Israel, EVER. I DID say though that there is NO Institutional Racism in Israel and that is a fact. Israel has one of the strongest Hate Laws in existence and also has one of the strongest Affirmative Action Programmes in the world to boot.

LOL!!!! You aren't even consistent with your posts, let alone your lies.

You continue to counter any claims of racism with laughable bullshit like "Israel is a pluralistic society" and "Arabs have more rights in Israel that elsewhere"...then you come out with this baloney.

The only person you're fooling is you.

 

[Spymaster]

.

 

[T & P]

TP: First, Sec. Council Resolution #242 is quite clear in both versions about any action be pursuant to a just and lasting peace and secure and recognised borders. Exceuse me but has Syria suddenly recognised Israel's existence? Right to Exist? In fact, Syria exists in a perpetual state of declared war with Israel. Ergo, since Syria is the only entity adressed in this Reoslution, aside from Israel of course, what would be your point? You make no sense.

Furthermore, the UN is neither the author of International Law nor its arbiter. That would be the Hague. Since Israel has never even been charged in any contrvention of International Law of any kind, how would you then imagine it is ghguilty of something?

If I might offer a friendly tip, it would be that you need to stop haunting propaganda websites, and start actually researching International Law as well as the Un Charter, Reolution #242, and a history of Israeli/Syrian Relations since 1947.


You could mention #446? Well by all means, PLEASE DO. There you will find jsut why 242 does not apply to anuthing remotely "PAlestinian." See, the UN has never recognised ANY sovereignity in either Gaza OR the so called "WB." Not theat the UN is an arbiter of I. L. as I said before, but that since you have the assumption that it is, explain jsut why "SEttlements" would be illegal if no sovereignity is recognised.

Your erroneous assumption is entirely based upon the supposition thast Geneva 49, Art.#49 addresses the issue perfectly, right (See how easy it is to deflate your ideas?)? Proplem with your supposition however is that 49#49 deals with the issue of legally defined occupation, i.e. impuned sovereignity. Israel is not comprimising any other nation's territorial integrity since I) There has never been a "Palestinian" Nation, let alone an Arab Nation on THOSE lands, and, II) The only nation to have EVER existed there were Jerwish Nations!!! We can reiterate a third principle while we are at it: III) Since no sovereignity is recognised for the lands in question, Israel as its territorial administrator, UNDER INTERNATIONAL LAW by the way, has any right it chooses as long as it does not arbitrarily seize privately and legally owned lands to do so.

Each and every "Settlement" was constructed upon land that was exhaustively searched for provenance specifically because of this concern and while some HAVE had Natural Expansion that HAS effected privately owned lands that were sometimes bought (at market value) under the principle of Emminent Domain and also , sometimes, with an equal or in soem cases near equal exchange of land on top of fees.

As you see, you do not have a leg to stand on.



As for war cirmes, etc? Why no charges? indictments? charges? convictions? SIMPLY PROPAGANDA.

I'm not sure which parts of the resolutions you don't understand (or claim not to), but quite simply, you're not fooling anyone pal.

But feel free to think Israel is not illegally occupying Palestinian land, even if the entire world including even the US thinks otherwise. It provides comedy relief, if nothing else