Mars and human settlement - news and discussion

Discussion in 'science, nature and environment' started by editor, Sep 5, 2018.

  1. Supine

    Supine Rough Like Badger

    Getting humans to Mars safely and returning without landing seems like the next logical step.

    Trying to stay on Mars before knowing we can successfully maintain a moon base seems reckless to me.
     
  2. cheesethief

    cheesethief Well-Known Member

    Logically yes, but it all depends on the motivations.

    There is currently no practical or economic benefit to any of these endeavours, that's all way off in the future. And most* of the science can be done better & cheaper with robots. The reality is that, for the foreseeable future, most of these manned endeavours are vanity projects, where the real motivation is prestige, notoriety & one-upmanship. None of which is remotely logical. The bragging rights of landing a person on Mars first outweighs the logic of taking a prudent, piecemeal approach. Especially if it turns out to be a private sector enterprise that gets there first... NASA has been talking about going to Mars decades now, and I doubt their latest hot air will ever actually result in a manned Mars mission - too much political inertia to overcome. More likely it'll be a future Elon Musk (the current one is all talk too) who finally gets us there.

    *I said most pedants, not all.
     
  3. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model every man and every woman is a star

    you didn't say most pedants at all.
     
  4. Crispy

    Crispy The following psytrance is baṉned: All

    He's a wanker, but SpaceX has gone from zero to world leader in space launch in 10 years. I wouldn't underestimate them.
     
    editor likes this.
  5. cheesethief

    cheesethief Well-Known Member

    Never say never, but I'm unconvinced by Musk. Too unstable, too capricious, too characterised by overly grandiose proclamations. In 2017 he said SpaceX could land humans on Mars in 7 years - that's nothing but barroom talk, the sort of thing people say to impress their mates. I have far more confidence in Jeff Bezos, who's less of a nutter & has a better business brain (even if he is a shithead to his employees). A Bezos Mars trip would be much more likely to come to fruition than a Musk one, imho.
     
    NoXion likes this.
  6. Yossarian

    Yossarian free shrugs

    Elon Musk seems to be going through some kind of prolonged midlife crisis, I reckon he might decide to try to get himself to Mars for his 50th birthday.
     
    BristolEcho and Lupa like this.
  7. editor

    editor hiraethified

  8. editor

    editor hiraethified

  9. T & P

    T & P |-o-| (-o-) |-o-|

    What do peeps here think about the likeness of artificial gravity being mastered and incorporated into spaceships we send to Mars anytime soon? I gather that theoretically we know how it could be achieved (centrifugal force?), but I reckon we’re probably 50-+ years away st the least, right?
     
  10. editor

    editor hiraethified

    Interesting stuff



    Colonizing Mars means contaminating Mars – and never knowing for sure if it had its own native life

    The readers' comments are good too.
     
  11. editor

    editor hiraethified

    And..

     
  12. NoXion

    NoXion Keep an eye out for diamonds

    There's nothing theoretical about centrifuges. They're used in chemistry and pilot training on Earth right now.

    The issue is that in order to prevent rapid rotation from inducing nausea in the crew due to Coriolis forces, any rotating section has to be above a certain radius.

    Here's a chart from the above link collating data from various studies on the subject, showing comfort and gravity as a function of spin rate and radius:

    [​IMG]

    The issue as I understand it is that we're not quite at the point where we can build a spacecraft module large enough for spin gravity to be practical. It's hard to justify the extra cost and complexity for missions which never go beyond Low Earth Orbit, which isn't helped by NASA's massive lack of ambition with regards to its astronaut program.

    It's an engineering problem, not a scientific one.
     
    SpookyFrank and T & P like this.
  13. Crispy

    Crispy The following psytrance is baṉned: All

    You could do it with two parts connected with a tether, instead of a huge ring.
     
    SpookyFrank and NoXion like this.
  14. NoXion

    NoXion Keep an eye out for diamonds

    I know it's more practical engineering in some ways, but it feels like an overly-cheap solution, if that makes sense. I think an interplanetary mission would benefit from the extra volume that a full-scale wheel would provide, especially if it's using weak-ass rocket engines that take a long time to get there.
     
  15. NoXion

    NoXion Keep an eye out for diamonds

  16. Crispy

    Crispy The following psytrance is baṉned: All

    Yeah but look at the comfort zone chart. You need 160m diameter to avoid discomfort from coriolis and tidal forces. That's gigantic!
     
  17. editor

    editor hiraethified

    There's certainly no shortage of water ice on the planet!

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Mars Express beams back images of ice-filled Korolev crater
     
    NoXion, PursuedByBears and S☼I like this.
  18. editor

    editor hiraethified

    Well this could come in handy

    [​IMG]


    Scientists Discover Clean Water Ice Just Below Mars' Surface
     
  19. editor

    editor hiraethified

  20. editor

    editor hiraethified

    Make this all happen now please!

     
    Argonia likes this.
  21. Idris2002

    Idris2002 halle bleibt stolz

    Yossarian likes this.
  22. editor

    editor hiraethified

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