March on the City - Protestors make it into the Stock Exchange Building

[ClassWar]

I have to say we were pleasantly surprised at the small number of City police and at their inexperience and incompetence. This at one point prompted an SWP organiser to taunt them with . 'This is the force that beat up the miners? And the printers at Wapping? You lot are a fuckin' embarrassment.'

udo (& groucho) - my point's a simple enough one. you wouldn't shout at a french policeman what a bastard the cops were at the poll tax riot. nothing to do with them! your swappie organiser comes across as confused and ignorant and doubtless left city plod scratching their heads. while it is possible that small numbers of city cops were at eg orgreave or wapping, the participation of the met in both the miners' strike and the news international dispute provided far more of the force used against the strikers.

i think it was sun tzu who first said 'know thine enemy'. on this showing the swappie organiser quoted with such glee comes across as a fucking embarrassment. perhaps next time you'll encounter the tsg who'll really give you something to squeal about.

 

[Darios]

I understand that the Marxist students at the London School of Economics have challenged the right wing lecturers to a debate on capitalism but the lecturers are running scared.

Is there any proof of this? I can find you some Austrian school economists who would gladly take them on.

 

[soulman]

There were plenty of anarchists there tbf, just no organised bloc.

I've heard there wasn't even a manky black flag stuck on a tent pole.

 

[stowpirate]

Serious point - how do people think the "protesters" would fare if they really did enter into a proper debate and try to engage the workers in the Stock Exchange they were protesting against?

They would lose because the cretins in the Stock Exchange have got to their position through the gift of the gab and ability to walk all over those who get in the way. Some sort of reordering of the selection process for those that succeed is required. So that little old deer in the tea shop has the power to shape peoples lives?

 

[butchersapron]

Seem to me that the SWP got incredibly lucky with the timing of this, having got the usual load of not yet bored/fed up/pissed off/SWSS members only last month, people who've not yet been through their grinder and so are still up for stuff like this - people who've not yet done the normal revolving door 3-6 months in then buggering off. I think the SWP CC will probably be discussing a new turn this weekend as a result - hello ''militant SWP, much like the embarassing efforts post-J18 and Seattle.

 

[Bakunin]

Seem to me that the SWP got incredibly lucky with the timing of this, having got the usual load of not yet bored/fed up/pissed off/SWSS members only last month, people who've not yet been through their grinder and so are still up for stuff like this - people who've not yet done the normal revolving door 3-6 months in then buggering off. I think the SWP CC will probably be discussing a new turn this weekend as a result - hello ''militant SWP, much like the embarassing efforts post-J18 and Seattle.

The day the SWP CC starts doing properly militant actions will be the day Satan commutes in a snowplough. It'll be a purely cosmetic form of pseudo-militancy, and nothing more.

 

[Groucho]

You 'Anarchists'! One day you know, if you actually do something people might listen to you.

You only hate the SWP because our actions expose any excuses you have for complete and absolute failure to mobilise anyone fror anything to be hollow.

 

[Groucho]

udo (& groucho) - my point's a simple enough one. you wouldn't shout at a french policeman what a bastard the cops were at the poll tax riot. nothing to do with them! your swappie organiser comes across as confused and ignorant and doubtless left city plod scratching their heads. while it is possible that small numbers of city cops were at eg orgreave or wapping, the participation of the met in both the miners' strike and the news international dispute provided far more of the force used against the strikers.

i think it was sun tzu who first said 'know thine enemy'. on this showing the swappie organiser quoted with such glee comes across as a fucking embarrassment. perhaps next time you'll encounter the tsg who'll really give you something to squeal about.

cops are cops are cops.

 

[Groucho]

What shops are in there that are so important?

there was a special offer for a rollex watch. Once we heard, we all wanted it.

 

[Bakunin]

You 'Anarchists'! One day you know, if you actually do something people might listen to you.

You only hate the SWP because our actions expose any excuses you have for complete and absolute failure to mobilise anyone fror anything to be hollow.

Funny, I've organised and taken part in more valuable and fulfilling work since I left the SWP and became an Anarchist. Trident Ploughshares, Faslane 365, Climate Camp, local actions, demo's, protest camps, Earth First events and so on.

Where were the Swapbots at those events, hmm?

 

[Groucho]

Funny, I've organised and taken part in more valuable and fulfilling work since I left the SWP and became an Anarchist. Trident Ploughshares, Faslane 365, Climate Camp, local actions, demo's, protest camps, Earth First events and so on.

Where were the Swapbots at those events, hmm?

At Faslane and the climate camp. IN terms of anti-war stuff I think the StWC has pretty much eclipsed anything else. In terms of tackling the issue of Climate Change I think the Campign against Climate Change has been quite effective.

 

[Bakunin]

At Faslane and the climate camp. IN terms of anti-war stuff I think the StWC has pretty much eclipsed anything else. In terms of tackling the issue of Climate Change I think the Campign against Climate Change has been quite effective.

Funny, I didn't see any Swappies on Faslane 365 and I went up there three times. And I don't recall seeing any Swapbots at the Climate Camp either, not that I'd want them at either event personally.

And the StWC could have been much more effective if it's leaders (the SWP) had had the balls to make open calls and some proper official support for direct action instead of simply calling it 'elitist.'

And, while I've heard plenty about the Climate Camps (and I attended the last one for the full week) I have yet to hear about the Campaign for Climate Change achieving anything of significance in that particular field. Which is odd, considering I'm a member of Greenpeace and Rising Tide and involved with Earth First! as well.

 

[Darios]

You 'Anarchists'! One day you know, if you actually do something people might listen to you.

You only hate the SWP because our actions expose any excuses you have for complete and absolute failure to mobilise anyone fror anything to be hollow.

Out of interest - how would you have reacted to a few dozen of us turning up with "No Bolshevism for Bankers" placards?

 

[Groucho]

Out of interest - how would you have reacted to a few dozen of us turning up with "No Bolshevism for Bankers" placards?

And is that the slogan you would have turned up with? Just shows how irrelevent you are and helps explain your marginalisation.

 

[Darios]

^ Someone call the irony police.

 

[gabi]

Ah, that'll explain the pack of idiots getting smashed at liverpool st station the other evening. Looked like the usual soap-dodging idiots who probably have no idea what they're actually protesting about. Their form of protest - this time round anyway - knocking back litres of fosters/carling/stella/other notoriously anti-corporate beers while hurling abuse at anyone walking past with a tie on.

Grow up kids. The best way to change the system (if thats what u actually really want - and is it?) is from the inside.

I'm no city boy, but jesus. These kids are just embarassing. Half of em will be working as receptionists at RBS in 2 years anyway.

 

[audiotech]

Ah, that'll explain the pack of idiots getting smashed at liverpool st station the other evening. Looked like the usual soap-dodging idiots who probably have no idea what they're actually protesting about. Their form of protest - this time round anyway - knocking back litres of fosters/carling/stella/other notoriously anti-corporate beers while hurling abuse at anyone walking past with a tie on.

Grow up kids. The best way to change the system (if thats what u actually really want - and is it?) is from the inside.

I'm no city boy, but jesus. These kids are just embarassing. Half of em will be working as receptionists at RBS in 2 years anyway.

Will RBS still be around in 2 weeks nevermind 2 years?

Changing the system from within? Within what?

 

[gabi]

I have to say we were pleasantly surprised at the small number of City police and at their inexperience and incompetence. This at one point prompted an SWP organiser to taunt them with . 'This is the force that beat up the miners? And the printers at Wapping? You lot are a fuckin' embarrassment.'

Chants included:

'They say bankers - we say wankers. bankers - wankers' and 'They say bankers, we say jump!'

Dear god.

To address your first point - so you'd prefer if they'd been violent, a la Wapping? You were mocking them for being non violent? Grow up you adolescent chump.

To address your second point - hmm. I hear there's an opening for Poet Laureate - your mate who came up with that should definitely be in the running. Prose of the finest standard.

 

[gabi]

Will RBS still be around in 2 weeks nevermind 2 years?

Changing the system from within? Within what?

Within the system. Why'm I wastin my time here.

 

[audiotech]

Within the system. Why'm I wastin my time here.

Difficult questions I know.

Within capitalism?

 

[gabi]

Difficult questions I know.

Within capitalism?

Within the capitalist system - within the democratic system, yes. Nothing like a gang of freshers 'storming' the stock exchange ever achieved anything. Real change happens elsewhere. Just an utter waste of time. And the claim that because the cops didn't beat the shit out of these kids somehow makes them weaker than Thatcher's lot is just... well. Weird.

I hope the next time the coppers go to town with batons and tear gas they're given a standing ovation by Groucho

 

[audiotech]

Within the capitalist system - within the democratic system, yes.

You think there is a possibility to reform this bankrupt, corrupt edifice then?

What do you suggest as a starting point?

 

[Groucho]

Obvious reforms:
Nationalise the banks - seize their assets, don't just fund their losses.
Nationalise the utility companies, freeze prices.
Nationalise the railways, freeze prices.
Create jobs and boost the economy by:
i. Rolling out solar panels - starting in the South West
ii. insulating homes - starting in Scotland
ii. double-glazing houses - starting in Scotland
Wind turbines.
Stop the war on Incapacity Benefit.
Tax the rich - a progressive taxation system.
Build (carbon neutral) council housing, seize unsold homes and end repossessions by taking defaulted property into council ownership with current occupiers as tenants.
Link pension to wages/inflation (whichever is the higher)
Protect pension funds for the vulnerable.
Withdraw from Iraq and Afghanistan.

Anything approaching these reforms will take such a high level of struggle it will shake the foundations of the system, so why not replace capitalism completely.

The reforms we'll get if we don't fight, fight, fight? Cuts in pay in the public sector, privatisation at cut price of more public infrastructure, cuts in budget aimed at reducing carbon ommissions, freeze in the minimum wage, cuts in benefits, reductions in pensions, plus no action on rising job losses and repossessions.

 

[ska invita]

You 'Anarchists'! One day you know, if you actually do something people might listen to you.

You only hate the SWP because our actions expose any excuses you have for complete and absolute failure to mobilise anyone fror anything to be hollow.

Just want to add that this demo was very much a student affair, not a SWP affair- take away the students and you would have had some stalls and a few 'senior members' standing around.

The students put on a great display of raw anti-capitalist anger - it was little more focussed than that - and all the better for it. The SWP did pay for a few bill boards, but that's nothing new.

 

[gabi]

You think there is a possibility to reform this bankrupt, corrupt edifice then?

What do you suggest as a starting point?

Suggesting a viable alternative. For starters like.

 

[Groucho]

Suggesting a viable alternative. For starters like.

Democratic collective ownership and control over the production and distribution of wealth - sustainable production for need not greed.

 

[ska invita]

Obvious reforms:
Nationalise the banks - seize their assets, don't just fund their losses.
.

It is is looking increasingly likely that the 'logic of the market' will dictate that this will happen - the banks are asking for more money for a bail out than they are actually worth, meaning that it would be cheaper for the state to 'buy them out' wholesale than give them their pocket money.

 

[gabi]

Obvious reforms:
Nationalise the banks - seize their assets, don't just fund their losses.
Nationalise the utility companies, freeze prices.
Nationalise the railways, freeze prices.
Create jobs and boost the economy by:
i. Rolling out solar panels - starting in the South West
ii. insulating homes - starting in Scotland
ii. double-glazing houses - starting in Scotland
Wind turbines.
Stop the war on Incapacity Benefit.
Tax the rich - a progressive taxation system.
Build (carbon neutral) council housing, seize unsold homes and end repossessions by taking defaulted property into council ownership with current occupiers as tenants.
Link pension to wages/inflation (whichever is the higher)
Protect pension funds for the vulnerable.
Withdraw from Iraq and Afghanistan.

Anything approaching these reforms will take such a high level of struggle it will shake the foundations of the system, so why not replace capitalism completely.

The reforms we'll get if we don't fight, fight, fight? Cuts in pay in the public sector, privatisation at cut price of more public infrastructure, cuts in budget aimed at reducing carbon ommissions, freeze in the minimum wage, cuts in benefits, reductions in pensions, plus no action on rising job losses and repossessions.

Pfffffft. Gotta be a troll. Even I wasn't this dumb when I was a young kid with unbridled dreams for humanity. Get real sunshine.

 

[Groucho]

Pfffffft. Gotta be a troll. Even I wasn't this dumb when I was a young kid with unbridled dreams for humanity. Get real sunshine.

Sunshine

So your answer to the chaos is more of the same, trust the bankers?

 

[gabi]

Sunshine

So your answer to the chaos is more of the same, trust the bankers?

Hmm.. nope, my answer for you is to grow up. Simple. Then maybe you'll know a few of those who can actually influence things in a positive way. Then you may feel the same when you see kids laid flat out drunk on 'Get out of Iraq' signs (which they seem to collect like festival wristbands) outside pubs in the city. Utterly clueless. Still - its youthful energy I guess. A few of those kids will develop into people who might change shit, sadly you personally probably will not