March 18th - Stop the War demo

[London_Calling]

Fwiw, I never understood why the organised opposition to the occupation of Iraq chose to fight on their terms, and not on terms that might influence the decision-makers.

These are capitalists (political and otherwise), fighting a war for capitalist reasons, it would seem reasonable to assume that if you wanted to influence them you would adopt a strategy that would affect them. As capitalists.

A lot of people marching around with placards - why should they care. It would seem (to me) a capitalist would find such an event irrelevant ?

Imo, you need to move on from the 60s and 70s, cos the opposition certainly has, and I don't think I'm the only one who is bemused by the lack of imagination around the 'anti' campaign.

 

[treelover]

What arrogance, what hubris, maybe they just didn't trust you idiots

btw how many fronts do you have now,

We attempted to lead in the anti-war movement, but the working class did not respond as we and kasheem would have liked.

 

[mutley]

What arrogance, what hubris, maybe they just didn't trust you idiots

btw how many fronts do you have now,

Oh, so the working class would have struck against the war, but they didn't trust Lindsey German.

Maybe not.

btw, what's your fucking alternative, you seem happy to diss both stw and uaf so what's your great secret for taking 'the struggle' forward?

Or do you just snipe at any movement involving more than two people and a dog?

 

[treelover]

No, not at all, just the SWP and its many fronts and no, i'm' not in the slightest apologetic or embarrassed about it. I saw (from the inside) how you (the SWP) destoyed the ethos and spirit of the London European Social Forum and consequently the Social Forum movement in the U.K, (an outcome Respect dearly wanted) and i for one will never forget. The sooner you go the way of that other parasitical party: the C.P with all its fronts, the better.

Or do you just snipe at any movement involving more than two people and a dog?

 

[mutley]

No, not at all, just the SWP and its many fronts and no, i'm' not in the slightest apologetic or embarrassed about it. I saw (from the inside) how you (the SWP) destoyed the ethos and spirit of the London European Social Forum and consequently the Social Forum movement in the U.K, (an outcome Respect dearly wanted) and i for one will never forget. The sooner you go the way of that other parasitical party: the C.P with all its fronts, the better.

And i suppose it's our fault the social forum movement in Italy has virtually disappeared too?

You still haven't said what your alternative is, or what you think people should do.

I think that stw and uaf are both much bigger than the swp, and while we are key parts of the leadership of both, we are not the majority, we actually have to convinve other sof our arguemnts, and hence they are not fronts.

What is your alternative?????????

 

[TremulousTetra]

Fwiw, I never understood why the organised opposition to the occupation of Iraq chose to fight on their terms, and not on terms that might influence the decision-makers.

These are capitalists (political and otherwise), fighting a war for capitalist reasons, it would seem reasonable to assume that if you wanted to influence them you would adopt a strategy that would affect them. As capitalists.

A lot of people marching around with placards - why should they care. It would seem (to me) a capitalist would find such an event irrelevant ?

Imo, you need to move on from the 60s and 70s, cos the opposition certainly has, and I don't think I'm the only one who is bemused by the lack of imagination around the 'anti' campaign.

So why didn't YOU stop the war with your more 'enlightened' methods?

fraternal greetings. ResistanceMP3

 

[TremulousTetra]

No, not at all, just the SWP and its many fronts and no, i'm' not in the slightest apologetic or embarrassed about it. I saw (from the inside) how you (the SWP) destoyed the ethos and spirit of the London European Social Forum and consequently the Social Forum movement in the U.K, (an outcome Respect dearly wanted) and i for one will never forget. The sooner you go the way of that other parasitical party: the C.P with all its fronts, the better.

so your alternative method is so poor you have to wait for a "insignificant sect" to disappear before you can do anything?
you are going to be waiting a long time mate, and in that time we will continue doing what we always do, we will unite with anybody and everybody who is prepared to work in United front in the interests of the working class, and just ignore those people like you who do nothing but snipe from the sidelines.

Rmp3

 

[TremulousTetra]

What is your alternative?????????

how did he/she stop the war?

 

[soulman]

so your alternative method is so poor you have to wait for a "insignificant sect" to disappear before you can do anything?
you are going to be waiting a long time mate, and in that time we will continue doing what we always do, we will unite with anybody and everybody who is prepared to work in United front in the interests of the working class, and just ignore those people like you who do nothing but snipe from the sidelines.

Rmp3

You really believe that working class women want to walk a given number of steps behind their male counterparts? You really believe working class women want to be denied education and be expected to hide their beauty to satisfy certain religious zealots?

 

[London_Calling]

So why didn't YOU stop the war with your more 'enlightened' methods?

fraternal greetings. ResistanceMP3

For the record, I find the ineptitude and impotence of the liberal left (to be) the great sadness of modern politics; there is no leadership and there are no new ideas to meet the exponential success of consumer-capitalism in general and the Neo-Cons in particular.

Placard waving in 60s stylie . . . thanks, but no thanks.

 

[London_Calling]

and anudder thing . . . at least in the 60s they took the time and trouble to knock up their own placards and slogans.

It feels like the ultimate achievement of consumer society that thousands and thousands of people march down the road with an identical slogan printed on A5 off the photocopier - if I buy three Big Macs do I get a placard free ?

 

[TremulousTetra]

You really believe that working class women want to walk a given number of steps behind their male counterparts? You really believe working class women want to be denied education and be expected to hide their beauty to satisfy certain religious zealots?

and meanwhile back in the real world, young working-class women who have played a leading role in the anti-war movement have learned lessonS and gained confidence from that ACTION, and are taking on all kinds of injustice.

I'd say my attitude to working-class women is a bit like my attitude to Iraq. You cannot impose democracy on Iraqi people, it is a contradiction in terms. Likewise, the emancipation of working-class women has to be the act of working-class women. I consider myself very privileged to have played a small role in facilitating that self activity.

however, if you feel you have a less profligate method of achieving the emancipation of working-class women, or even more important and on the topic of the thread stopping the war, please share it with us. (Why do I get the feeling you won't. )

Respect. ResistanceMP3

 

[TremulousTetra]

For the record, I find the ineptitude and impotence of the liberal left (to be) the great sadness of modern politics; there is no leadership and there are no new ideas to meet the exponential success of consumer-capitalism in general and the Neo-Cons in particular.

Placard waving in 60s stylie . . . thanks, but no thanks.

couldn't agree with you more. The ineptitude and the importance of the left is indeed disheartening. however, I am quite amazed that someone with such an obvious and awesome intellect as yourself does not share with us lesser beings the revolutionary method you employed to stop the War.

. Respect. ResistanceMP3

PS. It isn't just about waving placards. It is about building a network "a swarm" of people, coming from all different political angles, but sharing goals. People who can agree to disagree about the minutiae of left-wing politics, but can agree to work together on the big issues that unite us. As a revolutionary I am not going to dictate to those people how they must and must not behave. Today if they decide to march, I will march with them. Tomorrow if they decide to go on general strike, how much better will that be?