Many Parking meters blown up

[detective-boy]

errmm ... no its not

So who does look after the interests of the weak and unable then?

 

[spanglechick]

if a parking meter is broken / disabled / blown up etc - the parking bay(s) it controls is suspended, IME

that is: you're not allowed to park there at all - even in the middle of the night when the bay would have been free (my mum got towed for doing this).

highly counterproductive.

 

[newbie]

errmm ... no its not

I don't think so either.

 

[The Black Hand]

ever driven on london?

10 years...

 

[The Black Hand]

Well as a cyclist the attention and space cars willingly give me is fucking nothing and I'd prefer to have trafic lights at major junctions than be killed by a fuckwit car driver !

As for the congestion charge it seems to me your objection is based more on it being a tax on you than it is on the poor , but thats just the way I interpreted what you were saying !

When I lived in London I lived in da ghetto - and the car drivers on our balcony (as mixed a bunch as you could get) thought in a similar way to what I am presenting...

 

[The Black Hand]

A lot of local councils have recently jacked up parking charges and extended the hours in which people have to pay for parking in car parks.

Obviously some local people are getting pissed off with this.

The mad thing is, in many towns, the councils have made parking anywhere near the centre difficult, restricted and expensive, then sat back and congratulated themselves on doing a good job in "reducing car use".

And then a few years later noticed that all they have actually done is "reduced town centre use", as people do more of their shopping at out-of-town stores and shopping centres, which often involve people driving further afield!

Still, they can always allow the now-derelict High Street shops to be re-opened as rows of late-opening superpubs like Yates's and Edwards, although they will have to spend more money cleaning the vomit, urine, blood and broken glass off the pedestrianised flagstones every morning.

Giles..

Great post

 

[The Black Hand]

Fair enough. I would advocate resistance where the powerless (includes pedestrians, cyclists, the elderly etc) identify abuses or inconsiderate behaviour by car drivers. Abuses which are evident anywhere where parking demand exceeds supply and which hasn't got properly enforced parking controls: the motorists park on the pavement, they park across junctions, they double park, they block emergency access...


How should the disabled assert themselves if you park your Land Cruiser on the pavement so that the wheelchair ramp is obstructed? They might feel like blowing it up, but the reality of powerlessness is that they're most unlikely to be able to do so: face it, they're much more likely to simply stop using the pavement, stay indoors, once again lose out.

It's the weak and the timid who campaign for parking controls and for greater enforcement.

Your argument is in support of the powerful- those with a metal chariot.

As for the congestion charge I sympathise with your view because it only uses payment to ration a scarce resource. That isn't reasonable IMO. But the CC has been done to death, let's stick with parking.

You could view it as the excluded who suffer in the picture you have painted.

I prefer to base my views on the 'included workers' who have to cope with the shite aimed at taxing/pricing us off the roads...

Up here (Co Durham) drivers are way more considerate than you are making out - perhaps its something to do with the nature of capitalism in our respective areas...

 

[marty21]

Up here (Co Durham) drivers are way more considerate than you are making out - perhaps its something to do with the nature of capitalism in our respective areas...

there's the thing, considerate drivers - way more in durham i'd say

 

[UnderOpenSky]

I was amazed when I moved up to the Lakes how many people let me out at junctions. Don't think I'd ever drive in London, always seems easier to get the train.

 

[The Black Hand]

I was amazed when I moved up to the Lakes how many people let me out at junctions. Don't think I'd ever drive in London, always seems easier to get the train.

London reflects the anarchy of free market values.

Other areas still reflect older values of solidarity and mutualism...

 

[UnderOpenSky]

Is that a good or a bad thing?

 

[newbie]

No, London reflects demand exceeding supply and the far flung sticks represent the opposite... except in a few places: I'll bet that outside the Post Office, the football ground (on matchday) or by the most popular local newsagents car drivers are behaving exactly as I paint. If they're not it's because parking restrictions are enforced... in anywhere bigger than a village the car parked across the wheelchair ramp is anonymous and the driver knows it. Politeness/mutuality give way to self interest when we think we can get away with it.

I prefer to base my views on the 'included workers' who have to cope with the shite aimed at taxing/pricing us off the roads...

What sort of political analysis is "I prefer..."?

Go back to what I first posted, there are three elements to the way meters control parking, only one of which is money and in the vast majority of places the money is the least important, 40p an hour or something. Sure, in central London it's 4 quid an hour and that does act as a deterrent to the poorest, but the reason it's so expensive is because it's so popular.

If demand for a scarce and finite resource exceeds supply what mechanism should be used to ration/share fairly? It's a simple question, but it's at the heart of any political approach.

 

[The Black Hand]

Is that a good or a bad thing?

Its a description not an evaluation.

 

[The Black Hand]

No, London reflects demand exceeding supply and the far flung sticks represent the opposite... except in a few places: I'll bet that outside the Post Office, the football ground (on matchday) or by the most popular local newsagents car drivers are behaving exactly as I paint. If they're not it's because parking restrictions are enforced... in anywhere bigger than a village the car parked across the wheelchair ramp is anonymous and the driver knows it. Politeness/mutuality give way to self interest when we think we can get away with it.

What sort of political analysis is "I prefer..."?

Go back to what I first posted, there are three elements to the way meters control parking, only one of which is money and in the vast majority of places the money is the least important, 40p an hour or something. Sure, in central London it's 4 quid an hour and that does act as a deterrent to the poorest, but the reason it's so expensive is because it's so popular.

If demand for a scarce and finite resource exceeds supply what mechanism should be used to ration/share fairly? It's a simple question, but it's at the heart of any political approach.

No - you are wrong - drivers up here are actually nice and relaxed. Your view of human motivation is simply wrong.

I prefer is the language of realism rather than hidden motivation - yours is as much a choice as mine...

I choose to eliminate the rich

 

[Bob_the_lost]

No - you are wrong - drivers up here are actually nice and relaxed. Your view of human motivation is simply wrong.

I prefer is the language of realism rather than hidden motivation - yours is as much a choice as mine...

I choose to eliminate the rich

Way to miss the point!

 

[The Black Hand]

Way to miss the point!

No - I chose another point in preference to the reductionist one I was offered.

 

[Bob_the_lost]

No - I chose another point in preference to the reductionist one I was offered.

Translates as : Trying to argue that point without looking like an incompetent tit is impossible, thus i'll ignore it.

 

[The Black Hand]

Translates as : Trying to argue that point without looking like an incompetent tit is impossible, thus i'll ignore it.

No - i prefer a different approach...

 

[newbie]

No - you are wrong - drivers up here are actually nice and relaxed. Your view of human motivation is simply wrong.

Cool. Maybe we should all move up there. That'll make the problem go away.

Face it, you can't answer the question about resource rationing. No committed anarchist I've asked has been able to. The right (the market shall decide), the left (the will of the working class shall decide) and NuLabour (the corporations already decided) are clear, if unattractive. Anarchists just flap, which is a shame.

 

[The Black Hand]

Cool. Maybe we should all move up there. That'll make the problem go away.

Face it, you can't answer the question about resource rationing. No committed anarchist I've asked has been able to. The right (the market shall decide), the left (the will of the working class shall decide) and NuLabour (the corporations already decided) are clear, if unattractive. Anarchists just flap, which is a shame.

I am not flapping. Yours is the orginal flap given that resource rationing isn't a serious question - nobody is asking us/me to choose how to do it except you. I am more interested in struggle and not abstract policy questions.

 

[Xanadu]

I've seen loads of clips like this. Always amazed how there aren't more accidents! Or maybe there are. I don't know what the accident rate is in India, I should imagine its pretty high.....

Giles..

The taxi drivers around said there were loads of minor accidents, but not too many major ones. Last time I was there, there seemed to be quite a few major lorry accidents though.

 

[Georgie Porgie]

I'm not sure parking in london is that scarce or rationed a resource... I just find that it's extortionately expensive with many private companies making a killing offering space for parking. What is a scarce resource is parking for those of limited means.

Now if all the available parking space public/private was made available for reasonable amounts and realistic times... might that not solve the problem?

 

[The Black Hand]

I'm not sure parking in london is that scarce or rationed a resource... I just find that it's extortionately expensive with many private companies making a killing offering space for parking. What is a scarce resource is parking for those of limited means.

Now if all the available parking space public/private was made available for reasonable amounts and realistic times... might that not solve the problem?

Possibly...

 

[marty21]

I'm not sure parking in london is that scarce or rationed a resource... I just find that it's extortionately expensive with many private companies making a killing offering space for parking. What is a scarce resource is parking for those of limited means.

Now if all the available parking space public/private was made available for reasonable amounts and realistic times... might that not solve the problem?

where i live in london, it's difficult to get a parking spot near my house as most of the street and the adjoining street have cars, there are no parking restrictions and we are near a british rail station so punters also use it to park their cars outside the congestion zone to get a train into the city

 

[Squatticus]

Parking meters, and the enforcement of their rules, ration a scarce resource by a combination of methods:

first come first served;
time limit;
price.

In so doing they contribute to all road users having a reasonably equal opportunity to park in convenient places.

What alternative is there?

Er, public transport?

 

[blamblam]

this thread is amazing!

Yeah fight the power!!111!1ONE!!

 

[The Black Hand]

this thread is amazing!

Yeah fight the power!!111!1ONE!!

Yes, it means that people do things politically rather than talk about it on the web

 

[guinnessdrinker]

A better starting point might have been to bomb or otherwise decommision a few 4x4 for starters.

Take away the car and no need for parking meters. Problem solved.

Next!

yes! seconded! leave the meters alone, blow up all these cars!

 

[zoltan]

You Seen Cool hand Luke ( Paul newman ) ? has relevance to this thread. And nothing to do with boiled eggs either

 

[The Black Hand]

yes! seconded! leave the meters alone, blow up all these cars!

Back in the real world more parking meters will be blown up and no cars though...