1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Manchester United 17/18: Reigning Europa League Champions, EFL Cup and Community Shield Holders!!!

Discussion in 'football' started by chilango, Jun 21, 2017.

  1. The39thStep

    The39thStep Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbour?

    Fucking hell I was hoping we'd get them in the semi finals . Anyway well done Bristol even though according to Mourinhos they were 'lucky'.
     
    Badgers likes this.
  2. RD2003

    RD2003 Well-Known Member

    Just think, if Charlton and co. hadn't said stick with Ferguson in the early days, especially after the 5-1 defeat to an actually stop-and-start, flatter-to-deceive, youngish City side, when there was impetus among the United fanbase to get rid, you could have had 20-odd years of this. Loads of managers, a few FA and League Cup finals, plenty of top four or top six battles, no CL wins... And maybe a bit of humility creeping in...

    And imagine if the top six cartel hadn't carved it up between themselves to break away and form the PL, meant to be a one-club Bundesliga-esque top flight where everybody bows down to the eternal winners and always sells them their best players... Imagine if you'd actually been bought out by Michael Knighton...
     
    Badgers likes this.
  3. donkyboy

    donkyboy Crazy cat man

    that all sounds awesome..........






















    Now imagine we stuck with Moyes for 6 years....
     
    Badgers likes this.
  4. The39thStep

    The39thStep Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbour?

    More money needed apparantly , Woodward to blame.
     
    Badgers likes this.
  5. RD2003

    RD2003 Well-Known Member

    It's incredible really, the way they fucked up the Ferguson succession. I hoped for but never expected such a lack of planning. My two most long-term mates are both United fans, as is one of my cousins whom I've just seen over Xmas, and all are talking (seperately) about not going anymore. It's like the 1980s all over again except that I have chronic backache and occasional knee pain, and am less appealing to women. And except for City...

    My dad must be turning in his grave (he was one of 'em as well.)
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2017
  6. RD2003

    RD2003 Well-Known Member

    .
     
    Badgers likes this.
  7. Joe Reilly

    Joe Reilly Well-Known Member

    Its not what you spend its also what others spend. As, Jose pointed out when City needed a a change at fullback they sold two and bought - three for £130 million. The lesser Silva was bought to supplement the subs bench - a snip at £50 million. Mangala £40 mill? Rubbish. So Buy Stones for £50 mill. When Guardiola blundered with Bravo he simply bought another one for £40 million. That's £60 million approx for a goalkeeper.

    If you constantly upgrade, without fear or calculation of the cost eventually and inevitably a certain symmetry will be arrived at. Ditto PSG...half a billion on a forward line guarantees goals in one way or the other. It is not a magic wand. Having the unconditional support of a corrupt country rather than a lone corrupt oligarch does make a difference eventually.

    So the sectarian witherings from the likes of Carragher that 'Utd would be champions if Pep was in charge' or according to Keown, that 'Mourinho has lost the dressing room' is so much fanny and yet are treated with reverence. After all if Carragher was right then City would have won the title last year. Others point to Mourinho's demise at Chelsea in support of Keown's analysis, but exactly the same tensions are showing with Conte in charge. Naturally, this is ignored.

    Utd bought badly - at the end of the Fergie era (Zaha, Kagawa, plus one one season out of RVP) which then bled into the Moyes/LVG era - and are still to fully remedy. Fellani, Mata, Darmian, Blind and so forth were never Utd type players from the outset, but are yet to be replaced.

    Utd are still playing by the old rules where you pay for your mistakes. The new 'rules' means some don't have to.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2017
    editor likes this.
  8. TruXta

    TruXta tired

    Cry me a fucking river. You're the richest club in the world and you plead penury? Get to fuck.
     
    imposs1904, Fez909, Dandred and 4 others like this.
  9. Eggby

    Eggby Well-Known Member

    United should have held onto Zaha, Fergie's final signing, now he's back and doing well for Palace again...sadly but unsurprisingly he wasn't Moyesys cup of tea was he
     
  10. tommers

    tommers Yourdisco needs you

    Sums it up better than I ever could.
     
    Fez909 and Wilf like this.
  11. Dandred

    Dandred Mmmmm Beer!

    José Alan Mourinho still living in a hotel and close to a breakdown?
     
  12. Joe Reilly

    Joe Reilly Well-Known Member

    Clubs used to be responsible for generating their own income. Recently, this traditional model has been trumped by despotic regimes putting their financial thumbs on the scales of domestic and European competition.
    So its no longer club versus club, but club versus country.
    Only the truly half-witted would fail to be troubled by the corrupt potential implicit in such a set up.
     
    Eggby likes this.
  13. TruXta

    TruXta tired

    There's a discussion to be had about football economics, for sure. However, that doesn't change the fact that you're the richest club in the world and has been that or thereabouts for a decade or more. So again get to fuck.

    If this link is correct Utd and City are way ahead of the pack in terms of spending

    Premier League Last Five Seasons - Transfer League
     
    Eggby, Wilf and sealion like this.
  14. RD2003

    RD2003 Well-Known Member

    In reality, there is no 'traditional model,' and City in particular (which is what all this is really about) do now 'generate' their own income. And are as subject to the same (highly dubious) FFP limits as everybody else. It's just that the club is run by superior talents with a more clear-sighted vision, as reflected in recent player purchases as well as almost every other area you could mention. As I said above, United's problem is that complacency got the better of those running the club, and the way they now operate is by watching what happens at City and then responding to it. So they pay silly money for big names, as well as not so big names, in a bid to remain relevant and make sure that the sweatshop-manufactured merchandise still sells in impoverished Third World countries and 'generates' enough to continue to cling to the coat tails of the European elite. The thinking seems to be 'You got Pep so we'll get Mourinho,' except that United waited so long for him-while maintaining that they didn't want him and would never have him-that they now have to make do with the seemingly unhinged parody version. As recently as only six or seven years ago such short-sightedess would have been unimaginable. Taking into account the fact that it is actually MUFC which has assembled the most expensive playing squad in the history of the English game, the churlishness now being shown just seems laughable.

    It wasn't City who made it all about the money-that had been engineered long before Sheikh Mansour even thought of the club, by the cartel of already rich clubs. So somebody comes along and says they'll invest hundreds of millions in a club. Are you supposed to say, 'No we'll carry on as we are, thanks all the same,' and let the entrenched English top four and the European closed shop carry on dominating for ever on the basis of their past success? No club in the world would do that given such an approach, and most United fans only seem sorry (on the quiet) that the Sheikh didn't come along and rescue them from the Glazers. Incidentally, it is the Sheikh who owns City, not Abu Dhabi. Not sure what 'corrupt potential' is, but City's affairs are scrutinised more closely than anybody else's by UEFA and FIFA (no 'corrupt potential' in those particular bodies either...) And what could be more corrupt in potential than somebody as closely associated with United as their former Chief Executive having such a prominent position in all major domestic and international football bodies?

    I await some mention of 'human rights,' as it seems it is the latest straw to be clutched at. As if the Sheikh and associates are all-powerful in their own country and not subject to any control, the weight of their own country's history or the pressures from rival elements in the regime etc etc. You do have to laugh, though, at way fans of clubs who had their noses put out of joint by the rise of a genuine competitor, and who, taken as a whole, previously gave not a fuck about 'human rights' anywhere, are now quoting the likes of two-faced arseholes like Nick Cohen and apparently flocking to join Anmesty International. And as if 'human rights' issues are not enmeshed in the entire capitalist system and all money flows. If the Sheikh's investment had seen City only hover on the brink of the top six, say, none of this would ever be mentioned. What is a despotic regime anyway? Abu Dhabi is a long way from being one of the world's worst regimes in historical terms, and is one that western nations and capital does business with as a matter of course (as it does with plenty of far worse offenders.) In Manchester, City's owners have invested more in the community in nine years than United have done in their entire history. If Abu Dhabi ever embarks on a policy of illegally invading far-flung countries, unleashing all the lunatics and then fucking off and leaving them to it, I might think again... But it would still have nothing to do with City.
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2018
    Fez909 and The39thStep like this.
  15. The39thStep

    The39thStep Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbour?

    Should have kept Di Maria
     
    sealion likes this.
  16. tommers

    tommers Yourdisco needs you

    Football's structure has been specifically organised in order to allow the top clubs to cement their positions. European football has been deliberately organised to allow the top clubs to cement their positions. The whole affair has been getting more and more uneven (and that is deliberate). The top clubs have been pushing for that to get even worse.

    You (as in you, City, Liverpool, Chelsea and probably Arsenal) are all so totally divorced from the rest of the league that the sooner you fuck off and form your European super league or whatever the fuck it is you ultimately want the better as far as I'm concerned.
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2018
  17. TruXta

    TruXta tired

    Wouldn't it be a better solution long term if these structures were dismantled and the playing field levelled? Otherwise the imbalance will only become bigger I reckon.
     
  18. RD2003

    RD2003 Well-Known Member

    I'm not aware that City have ever threatened a breakaway 'super league.' That's the self-elected G14 who really don't want City at the table.
     
    sealion likes this.
  19. RD2003

    RD2003 Well-Known Member

    It undoubtedly would be better-but as with most things in life that would be better if they happened, it will not happen. Ever.
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2018
  20. tommers

    tommers Yourdisco needs you

    That is never ever going to happen is it? Who's going to do it? The clubs? FIFA? UEFA? Sky?

    They're the ones who came up with the current situation.
     
  21. TruXta

    TruXta tired

    Maybe I'm being hopelessly romantic, but I still believe that ordinary football fans want competitive, nation based leagues as the primary format. Meaning I don't think a European superleague would ever get any traction.
     
  22. tommers

    tommers Yourdisco needs you

    Good stuff. And I have some sympathy for City cos the only way to break into that group is by spending loads of money (or being exceptionally well run and a bit lucky like Spurs) but you would have to go too I'm afraid. :(

    We'd have a wage cap and rules about how much you can spend on playing staff and other stuff that I haven't thought through properly. It'd be great.
     
  23. tommers

    tommers Yourdisco needs you

    I think you're right but at the moment the "nation based league" isn't competitive outside of three or four teams. The other sixteen are just there as fodder.

    And that's deliberate. And it's only going to get worse.

    And yes I know about Leicester.
     
  24. TruXta

    TruXta tired

    But if the other 14-15 teams say enough is enough, let's split profits equally and level the field in other ways, what choice do the top five six teams have?
     
  25. RD2003

    RD2003 Well-Known Member

    We alreeady have rules about how much you can spend on playing staff in the aforementioned FFP legislation. Unfortunately the unstated aim, amidst a lot of tosh about saving high-spending clubs from themselves, was to make sure the elite cartel of clubs could never be challenged. City just about got in before the drawbridge was raised.
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2018
  26. RD2003

    RD2003 Well-Known Member

    They've already had chance after chance to challenge the elite. Most clubs are only interested in raking in the EPL money as long as possible. Most voted for FFP, for instance, like turkeys voting for Xmas.

    They don't mind being fodder for the top six clubs.
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2018
    sealion and tommers like this.
  27. Joe Reilly

    Joe Reilly Well-Known Member

    Satisfying display. I've always felt (as previously stated) that Utd are far more compact with Herrera in the team. Although his form this year has been patchy, but very busy today, he is better partner for Matic than Pogba in the middle. It's not that he is better than Pogba but more that he releases him to devastating effect linking play going forward especially from the left. To say that on that side Everton were left ragged is to undersell his influence. Shots on goal,multiple chances created, plus two assists tells it's own story.
    Both and Lingard and Martial seem to find an extra gear too. And for all the media talk of Mourinho 'betraying the Utd tradition' the performance was straight out of the Fergie playbook.
     
  28. tommers

    tommers Yourdisco needs you

    I think you're underestimating the power that the big clubs have. TV income is dependent on Man Utd, Chelsea, Liverpool and the media is focused on them. If they left then a lot of that would go. That would affect income for club owners so I imagine that a lot of them are quite happy the way things are.

    Football fans care about success, bragging rights, watching a competitive game

    Owners are more bothered about income and turnover etc.

    Those interests overlap somewhat but they're not the same IMO.
     
    sealion likes this.
  29. Eggby

    Eggby Well-Known Member


    Yes a good day at the office for Pogba, well in the second half at least. Great finishing for the goals too, I always think of Lingard as a bit lightweight but he's been a revelation lately.
     
  30. Joe Reilly

    Joe Reilly Well-Known Member

    You misunderstand a couple of things. One it isn't just about City. And there are very different business models in play. Unlike say the Glazers, who are in it to make money pure and simple, with plain old greed the primary motivation, the Sheik's bottom line has nothing to do with profit and loss as such. It is an investment alright, but owning City is not simply a hobby for an obscenely wealthy individual. Instead it as part of a political strategy by a major political player in the region to enhance the visibility and prestige of the region and his country in particular. City are bankrolled to this end, with profits magiced up by cooking the books in order to meet the requirements of FPP.

    Owning City is very much a demonstration of soft power which is where 'despotic' comes in, because it is being done to ensure said despotism continues uninterrupted. Your full-blooded endorsement of them (especially as a supporter of a bitter rival) is in its own small way suggestive of the efficacy of the strategy. Understandably, the owners of PSG are following the same model and for the same reasons but rather more brazenly. And yet you still ask about where the 'corrupt potential' is in all this? It is already corrupt and the potential for further corruption is almost infinite.
    If you still refuse to see where this might be heading, then why not take us all step by step through the successful bid by Qutar to host the World Cup in 2022?
     

Share This Page