Manchester fire in twelve storey building

Discussion in 'UK politics, current affairs and news' started by MrSki, Dec 30, 2017.

  1. MrSki

    MrSki Who am I to say you're wrong

  2. MrSki

    MrSki Who am I to say you're wrong

    Seems good news and only one hospital casualty from smoke inhalation. :thumbs:
     
  3. maomao

    maomao 四月她爹

    Hopefully what happened at Grenfell tower has finally reversed the policy of the emergency services telling people to stay in their flats and wait for rescue. Hopefully a daytime fire means less people at home and mostly awake and dressed and ready to run.
     
    dylanredefined and ddraig like this.
  4. farmerbarleymow

    farmerbarleymow cooking expert and general daft apeth

    Not where I am - they are still the standard instructions. Some blocks will be better fire-proofed than others, so the advice may be appropriate.

    Anyway, a lot of sirens in town tonight but its good that there doesn't seem to be any fatalities.
     
    muscovyduck and MrSki like this.
  5. maomao

    maomao 四月她爹

    It's advice that killed at Grenfell and Lakanal and will kill again if it's followed again. And kills in the most horrible way imaginable too. People trapped in their houses watching their possessions burn then their families die in terror and pain. I don't care how fireproof they reckon the individual flats are you're safer outside a burning building than in one.
    Indeed. Thank fuck for that.
     
    dylanredefined likes this.
  6. planetgeli

    planetgeli There's no future in England's dreaming

    I tend to agree. And I'll give you something to add to that.

    I work in a school for excluded from mainstream schoolchildren. Our building (I shit ye not) is a condemned old primary school. There are parts of the building we are not allowed to enter. I mention this only to show how much the local authority care about provision for our type of school.

    However, my real point. To a small extent, the building has been 'refurbished' for our use. This means, literally, a lick of paint...and new doors on all the rooms because they need to be strong doors, locked by magnetic control, because the pupils spend all day kicking shit out of them trying to abscond.

    These doors need to be fireproof. They are. We were told they provide 1 hours fire protection.

    Then a few got damaged. Requiring mending. Officials came round. And told us these were not 1hr fireproof doors, but 30 minute ones.

    It's ok. We have windows to jump through (the kids do it regularly). But we were lied to.

    How many 'doors on the cheap' like this in tower blocks across the UK?
     
  7. MrSki

    MrSki Who am I to say you're wrong

    If there is only a single staircase you could be fucked either way. It is the smoke kills most fire victims & if the flat is insulated against smoke then normally you are better off remaining in the property. Remember than at Grenfell the fire brigade had attended & presumed the fire was out until they realised the outside of the building was on fire too.:(
     
  8. maomao

    maomao 四月她爹

    Plenty of people made it down the staircase at Grenfell after realising the advice was shit. Plenty didn't but would have if they'd left earlier. The best response would be to have an immediate guided evacuation as soon as any fire is reported.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2017
    MrSki likes this.
  9. binka

    binka !!!!!!!!!

    I agree with maomao if I'm in a building that's on fire I'm getting out regardless of any advice given by someone not currently in a building that's on fire
     
  10. MrSki

    MrSki Who am I to say you're wrong

    True. I would have gone down the rubbish shoot if I had hindsight of what happened. The advice was based on the cladding being fireproof which was obviously wrong. A guided evacuation is not realistic unless you have a fire officer on the top floor.

    The recent fire in the Bronx, although in a much older building, was enhanced by the smoke & flames travelling up the stairwell due to leaving the door to the source open.
    Full story here.

    ETA that building had an external fire escape.
     
  11. The39thStep

    The39thStep Well-Known Member

    from Jennifer Williams at the Manchester Evening News...

     
  12. farmerbarleymow

    farmerbarleymow cooking expert and general daft apeth

    I was trying to find the MEN article that said that, but couldn't...

    Thankfully things were OK, but I'll wait for the outcome.
     
  13. William of Walworth

    William of Walworth Festographer

    I'm with that reaction -- I don't live in Mc, but I really do hope things turn out OK :confused:
     
  14. salem

    salem Well-Known Member

    Obviously we know that in the the particular case of Grenfell people who stayed behind perished, however advice about what to do in such circumstances is never going to be perfect in every single circumstance.

    Remember this advice is there for good reason and in the vast majority of cases the firewalls do their job properly - the fire this thread is about being a case in point.

    The London Fire Brigade are still generally recommending staying put and I'd be inclined to trust them - obviously assessing the situation as it happens. Hard to do with a rational head in the circumstances, however that's the point of advice like this, to get ideas into your mind so if the unthinkable happens you already know what to do and I can't help but think kneejerk reactions are ultimately dangerous in that respect.

    I fear that we'll see a flat fire result in unnecessary death as a result of people panicking and crowding smokey stairwells.
     
  15. dylanredefined

    dylanredefined Not a house elf a tiger

    You can't really blame them if the fire brigade can't deliver on the promise to get to you.:(
    People trusted the advice and died.
     
  16. maomao

    maomao 四月她爹

    Not true. The fire in Manchester burnt through firewalls. The people on the top floors were only advised to stay put because the stairs were already full of smoke. People on lower floors were told to leave and did leave safely.

    Catherine Hickman died at Lakanal House, screaming in agony on the phone to some poor sod in the fire service control room who was still advising her to stay put while the room she was in started to burn.

    I'm not blaming any of the brave firemen who risked their lives to save others, they're all heroes without doubt. I'm blaming the bureaucracy which still continues to issue deadly advice when time and time again landlords both public and private have proved their fireproofing isn't up to scratch. At Lakanal House the insulation between flats had been removed and none of the fire inspection teams had noticed. If you're happy to put your life in the hands of incompetent bureaucrats feel free but as far as I'm concerned me and my family are safest outside of burning buildings.
     
    Sasaferrato, NoXion and campanula like this.
  17. farmerbarleymow

    farmerbarleymow cooking expert and general daft apeth

    Fire brigade were still at the site when I passed this afternoon. Looks as if the two flats have been gutted.

    IMG_20171231_142920.jpg

    IMG_20171231_142935.jpg
     
  18. mauvais

    mauvais change has become unavoidable

    I saw this yesterday just after it had started. It's the Light ApartHotel.

    Rolling flames were coming out of the window of one of those lowest destroyed apartments, not sure which as it was dark. Then that set the balcony above alight and it travelled upwards from there. I think it was pretty well compartmentalised and really it was just the external elements where it spread.

    Lots and lots of appliances attended, whole area was cordoned off, we left once they expanded the cordon.

    There were people visible in the apartment one or two below the fire, and again on the right hand side above. I guess they were told to stay put.

    After about half an hour, firefighters emerged on the adjacent balcony, which seemed to have slats missing, and tore apart the divider seemingly with their hands. Someone needs a payrise.

    Some of the info seems a bit weird. For example I don't know why they say it's a 12 storey building when it appears to be more. Perhaps the internal layout is different.
     
    muscovyduck and maomao like this.
  19. farmerbarleymow

    farmerbarleymow cooking expert and general daft apeth

    Definitely.

    It's odd to see lights on the flat immediately below, as I would have thought that the water would have trashed the electrics.
     
  20. mauvais

    mauvais change has become unavoidable

    It was too high for a jet from the ground - they tried it briefly - and it took time for the long ladder & cherry picker to get in place. Most of it seemed to be tackled with hoses from inside, although I suspect that at the base of the fire, everything volatile had already burned by that point. So possibly not as much water as you might think.
     
    farmerbarleymow likes this.
  21. farmerbarleymow

    farmerbarleymow cooking expert and general daft apeth

    You're probably right. An electrical fault is probably to blame - which reassures my paranoia about unplugging stuff.

    There was a lot of shattered glass on the street below, so the lower balconies that jut out will be covered in debris.

    That bit of the block looks around 14-15 floors to me, so it is odd that is being reported as 12 floors.
     
    mauvais likes this.
  22. mauvais

    mauvais change has become unavoidable

    Yeah, there was a fair amount of burning debris coming down. A little got stuck on the corner of the roof to the left, but fortunately it seems to have not done any major damage. We all stank of smoke afterwards too.

    I'd be interested to know what caused it - it was pretty intense.

    Oh and in the other photos in the news, you can see neighbouring apartments' curtains and they look clean, so that supports the idea that it was pretty well contained, which is good news - the building did its job well. Even the exterior fittings, which seem to be slatted wood at their core, took a while to catch.
     
    muscovyduck and farmerbarleymow like this.
  23. mauvais

    mauvais change has become unavoidable

    They also said it started on the 9th and spread down to the 8th. Doesn't quite match what I saw, which is that it started in the lower of these two:

    which, counting balconies, is six down and thus the lower of the two blackened apartments in your photo.

    I could have misremembered but I don't think so. It went upwards.
     
  24. maomao

    maomao 四月她爹

    Fire of course always looks like it's going up (in the absence of strong wind) . Could have been debris falling through the floor from ninth to eighth before it even became that visible and obvious. Or you could be right, just saying.
     
    mauvais likes this.
  25. mauvais

    mauvais change has become unavoidable

    It started off quite mild, smoke and orange light from inside, but then became pretty furious, so no mistaking where it was emanating from. Now I guess it could have started inside 9 and burnt through the floor, then emerged out of 8, but given the compartments seemingly doing their job, I'd be surprised. IDK, might all just be shonky reporting rather than what GMFRS actually said.
     
    maomao likes this.
  26. Sasaferrato

    Sasaferrato T'agba ta ti de, a ma yo ogunja.

    I couldn't get my head round that, a single staircase.
     
  27. farmerbarleymow

    farmerbarleymow cooking expert and general daft apeth

    The latest on this is that the fire brigade think it might have been a pan of food left unattended that caused it.
     
  28. mauvais

    mauvais change has become unavoidable

    It's generally good news on this:

    Fire alarm systems were operational and activated at blaze-hit Northern Quarter tower block

     
    cupid_stunt likes this.

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