manchester demo will u be going ?
- Thread starter rainbows
- Start date
The Black Hand
Unclean
In Bloom said:
But you and your party are copying the social democratic practice of those you claim to oppose (ie. the left, never mind the big capitalist parties)...
And by the way, your leaflet (AF and SF) for the event is ABC anarchism, in that it is for 15 yr olds... It is a restatement of basic anarchism and contains no plans TO DO ANYTHING, you are parasicitic on the back of those who do stuff ie. created the modern working class movement and other, dare I say it, adventurous things, like derail the Flying Scotsman in '26...
Durruti would turn in his grave too.
lostexpectation
New Member
are there any protest during the conference itself?
interestin indy front page
http://www.independent.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00221/p1-230906_221568b.jpg
interestin indy front page
http://www.independent.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00221/p1-230906_221568b.jpg
taffboy gwyrdd
Embrace the confusion!
lostexpectation said:
Wednesday is the day of the more fruity DA. Dont know exactly what but it shouldnt be too hard to find out.
The Black Hand
Unclean
In Bloom said:
So you admit your politics are shit?
No.Attica said:
But I don't accept your vanguardist assumptions that it's the role of anarchist organisations to tell people what they need to do.
Besides, what would you have written? What would you suggest our argument should have been? What action would you suggest?
If anybody's interested, for the purpose of context, here's our leaflet:
http://af-north.org/manchester AF/Iraq.pdf
http://af-north.org/manchester AF/Iraq.pdf
"Real internationalism does
not mean supporting one set
of would be rulers against
some foul murderous imperialist
regime. That just means
putting a new lot of murderers
in power to replace the
previous lot. Real internationalism
means supporting
workers in struggle all over
the world. We can do that by
fighting the war effort here at
home and by providing aid
for struggling workers like
the Oil Workers of Basra."
Amen.
not mean supporting one set
of would be rulers against
some foul murderous imperialist
regime. That just means
putting a new lot of murderers
in power to replace the
previous lot. Real internationalism
means supporting
workers in struggle all over
the world. We can do that by
fighting the war effort here at
home and by providing aid
for struggling workers like
the Oil Workers of Basra."
Amen.
The Black Hand
Unclean
In Bloom said:
FFS - your politics must be shit if you cannot understand an anti vanguardist and class war anarchist criticism of your lack of politics sonny.
The Black Hand
Unclean
mk12 said:
Indeed, you have a religious belief that your politics deserve to be taken more seriously than they are. When really you would be taken seriously if you actually practised some class war for a change rather than worship your ideology... [aimed at In Bloom more than MK12]
Hawkeye Pearce
We're your friends man...
fanciful said:
Who supports Hezbollah? And it is not a matter of "taking sides" here but a matter of thinking critically about every situation. Your view of this is just as simplistic as Bush and co's "with us of the terrorists" etc.
The Black Hand
Unclean
mk12 said:
Who knows? They sound like missionaries anyway, desperate outsiders wanting to be working class and providing 'support' alone...
The Black Hand
Unclean
Hawkeye Pearce said:
You are right - it is not a question of taking sides, but one of 'making sides' through praxis, and this involves thinking critically but also practical involvement in the developing struggles. It does not mean doing fuck all but leaflet a load of soggy lefties with a soggy leaflet.
I understand your politics perfectly well, such as they are, I just think they're a pile of meaningless wank.Attica said:
The point of the leaflet was to give an anarchist POV on event in the Middle East, not to act as some all-seeing manifesto. I do think something about "If you'd like to get involved, contact [anti-war group in Manchester]" or some such would be helpful, but I didn't help write the leaflet, so I can hardly complain too much.
There are only two sides that matter, and it's not Lebanese and Isreali.fanciful said:
The point of the quote is that we support working class people struggling against imperial wars, but we do not support those who would use that struggle to take power for themselves. Take Hizbollah for example, though their leadership are a bunch of deeply unpleasant Islamic fundamentalists, it's fairly obvious why people support Hizbollah, and I'm quite happy to support those supporters*, just not the leadership of the organisation or it's ideology. Capice?
*In terms of fundraisers, solidarity marches and actions or even direct action where appropriate.
The Black Hand
Unclean
In Bloom said:
I can clearly see I was right first time;
"And by the way, your leaflet (AF and SF) for the event is ABC anarchism, in that it is for 15 yr olds... It is a restatement of basic anarchism and contains no plans TO DO ANYTHING, you are parasitic on the back of those who do stuff ie. created the modern working class movement and other, dare I say it, adventurous things, like derail the Flying Scotsman in '26..."
You are parasitic, nobody gives a toss about your pov, and you plan to continue doing NOTHING. FFS It would be funny if it wasn't so tragic.
As hard as it might be for you to comprehend, a lot of people in the AF are involved in various kinds of anti-war action. The AF is a propaganda organisation, it does not exist as a means to organise for action, because that should be done along class lines, not ideological lines. It's not hard.Attica said:
The Black Hand
Unclean
In Bloom said:
Doh! That's the point - your ideology seperates you off from impact within the class.
The Black Hand
Unclean
In Bloom said:Does it now?
That's a nice assertion to make. Do you have any argument to back it up?
The entire approx 20 years of its existence?
The Black Hand
Unclean
Tom A said:O rly? The SWP have been around since 1951* y'know.
*ok, they weren't called that till 1977, but still...
You've got your threads confused, that's a different one pal
The Black Hand
Unclean
Once more on why every political 'event' is fodder for the media cow;
"Labour, politics, and intellect are no longer separate, actually they have become interchangeable...
Everything has become 'performative'.
Virno brilliantly develops here his major thesis, an analogy between virtuosity (art, work, speech) and politics.
They are all political because they all need an audience, a publicly organised space, which Marx calls 'social cooperation', and a common language in which to communicate..."
Page 13, introduction by S. Lotringer to P. Virno "A Grammar of the Multitude: For an analysis of contemporary forms of life, 2004 Semiotext(e) publishers.
"Labour, politics, and intellect are no longer separate, actually they have become interchangeable...
Everything has become 'performative'.
Virno brilliantly develops here his major thesis, an analogy between virtuosity (art, work, speech) and politics.
They are all political because they all need an audience, a publicly organised space, which Marx calls 'social cooperation', and a common language in which to communicate..."
Page 13, introduction by S. Lotringer to P. Virno "A Grammar of the Multitude: For an analysis of contemporary forms of life, 2004 Semiotext(e) publishers.
The Black Hand
Unclean
It looks like a better idea than In BLooms has completely removed (blown him out of) the water and hence, the Bloom is no more. In fact, its wilted
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