Manchester Demo - 23rd Sept, Labour conference. Probably Manchesters BIGGEST EVER!!!

[treelover]

Of course we are concerned about Iraq, we probably care more about the Iraqis than the swp ever have, many of us where in STW groups from day one. But we saw how basically the Iraqis and 'the war' were just another issue to be manipulated and pushed to further the telelogical goal of world revolution(some hope!) I also remember how the Iraqi Trade Unionists were shouted down by the hardleft at the ESF. We also see a leftie 'milk cow' when we see one. The SWP top table have loved all the attention and yes power: being head honchos in a nationwide/international movement: but like the old actress who won't leave the stage, the SWP/STWC keep coming back for more, even as the clapping get less and less, time to leave the stage Lyndsey...



fuck me, how many mixed metaphors can i get in one paragraph!

 

[X-77]

TROOPS OUT OF IRAQ
•DON'T ATTACK IRAN
•HANDS OFF LEBANON
•NO TRIDENT REPLACEMENT

what about immigration, housing, NHS, police etc - other issues that people are concerned about in their daily lives?

Errr, it's a demo organised by 'Stop the War Coalition'... you are obviously taking the piss just a bit (I hope).

 

[ska invita]

The STW "Time to GO" Promo:


STW are I'm afraid inept - good at getting logistics together, absolutley unable to get the right message out at the right time.

"Bring the Troops Home" was the wrong slogan, as it was far from clear that bringing troops back at that moment was in the best interests of the Iraqi's.

And now its "Blair Out"!?... err..he's going - why didnt you do Blair Out on day one when it would have meant something?

..and frankly a bit of law breaking wouldnt go amiss either. I have been reading about the sufragettes recently... thats how to run a campaign, and it invovled breaking a few eggs, alongside all this softly softly marching up and down stuff.

 

[In Bloom]

what about immigration, housing, NHS, police etc - other issues that people are concerned about in their daily lives?

Yeah, a more general march about everything the Blair government has fucked up probably would have been more worthwhile, IMO, but probably not as well attended, unfortunately.

 

[mk12]

What people aren't concerned about Iraq?! What planet are you on?

did i say they weren't? It's just immigration is probably a bigger issue for people. Yet the left rarely say anything about it. Apart from putting up posters saying "asylum seekers welcome here" or something.

 

[In Bloom]

STW are I'm afraid inept - good at getting logistics together, absolutley unable to get the right message out at the right time.

They singlehandedly ended Blair's political career, you know.

(or so the trots keep telling me, I think it's the official line now or something)

 

[ska invita]

They singlehandedly ended Blair's political career, you know.

(or so the trots keep telling me, I think it's the official line now or something)

They certainly coul have ended it 3 years ago if they'd got behind the Blair Out chants that the crowd came up with on the first rally.

IF we couldnt stop the war from starting, we could at least call for the head of the chief warmonger - an achievable aim. No...instead it was all "troops out", which I personally was not convinced by, and still have some reservations.

Dont get me wrong - Its easy to knock em from the sidelines, but they jsut seem to have made some bad decision and also, frankly, lack balls.

 

[Tom A]

They singlehandedly ended Blair's political career, you know.

No, you'll find that was acutally the Tories getting their act together for the first time in nine years that has done that.

 

[Wilf]

Stop the War Alternative Conference
10.30 am - 6.00 pm Roscoe Building, University of Manchester, Brunswick Street, Manchester M13 9PL


Speakers include:
•Tariq Ali, •Dr Richard Horton (Editor, The Lancet), •John Rees (Respect Coalition), •Azzam Tamimi, (Institute of Islamic Political Thought), •Jeremy Corbyn MP, •Craig Murray (Ex-UK Ambassador, Uzbekistan), •Yvonne Ridley (Islam Channel), •Dave Crouch (Media Workers Against the War), •Lindsey German (Convenor, Stop the War Coalition)

Some names to chill the blood

SWP posters sometimes get a bit grumpy about being called Islamo-Trots. But when they decide that these are the people best able to represent the diversity of the anti-war movement...

 

[Wilf]

If any anarcho types who post here are thinking of coming along, anarchists in Manchester and other bits of the North are organising an anarchist block on the demo in the hopes of having some kind of visibility on the march. We're meeting at 12.30 in the Peace Gardens, just round the corner from Albert Square on the day of the march. We'll be the lot with the red and black flags

might just do that

 

[darren redparty]

interesting program on last nights islam channel it was a history of the russian revolution according to yvonne ridleys pals- apparently a blood soaked debauch caused by lenins evil attatchment to 'dialectical- materialism' which apparently is an idea based on the 'false science of darwinism' which its seems preaches that 'men are just another form of animal and should be treated as such' and that 'history is a war of all against all'.
the program concluded with the suggestion that lenins final illness was 'sent by allah to punish him for his atheism'
nice friends you trots have

 

[treelover]

blimey, how much further can this all go, do the SWP have any bottom line?

the program concluded with the suggestion that lenins final illness was 'sent by allah to punish him for his atheism'
nice friends you trots have
Reply With Quote

 

[Wilf]

apparently he lost a lot of weight in his final illness. It was actually sent by Allah McBeal.

[coat already on and zipped up to the chin ]

 

[audiotech]

Some names to chill the blood

SWP posters sometimes get a bit grumpy about being called Islamo-Trots. But when they decide that these are the people best able to represent the diversity of the anti-war movement...

From that list just two have some links with a rather moderate line on Islam and the other seven don't have any link. I would hazard a guess that the majority of the speakers listed don't follow any religion?

 

[audiotech]

interesting program on last nights islam channel it was a history of the russian revolution according to yvonne ridleys pals- apparently a blood soaked debauch caused by lenins evil attatchment to 'dialectical- materialism' which apparently is an idea based on the 'false science of darwinism' which its seems preaches that 'men are just another form of animal and should be treated as such' and that 'history is a war of all against all'.
the program concluded with the suggestion that lenins final illness was 'sent by allah to punish him for his atheism'
nice friends you trots have

Replace the word allah with the word god and it could be broadcast on the christian channel.

 

[Wilf]

From that list just two have some links with a rather moderate line on Islam and the other seven don't have any link. I would hazard a guess that the majority of the speakers listed don't follow any religion?

Yes, but of that 7, 3 are members of the swp and 4 are trots (if Tariq Ali still describes himself thus). The notion that the swp and respect are involved in an islamic-trot alliance holds pretty well when you lookat that platform. My point was that its a bit difficult to argue that stwc or respect itself are 'broad base' when you look at those names.

 

[Wilf]

Replace the word allah with the word god and it could be broadcast on the christian channel.

Well, yes, indeed. Have a feeling you wrote that as a defence - whereas it actually reads as a guilty plea.

 

[In Bloom]

Replace the word allah with the word god and it could be broadcast on the christian channel.

Many people from the Christian Channel being invited to speak at SWTC events?

 

[audiotech]

Well, yes, indeed. Have a feeling you wrote that as a defence - whereas it actually reads as a guilty plea.

Guilty of what?

 

[audiotech]

Many people from the Christian Channel being invited to speak at SWTC events?

A few christians seen on anti-war marches.

 

[In Bloom]

A few christians seen on anti-war marches.

Is anybody objecting to the presence of Muslims on anti-war marches?

The point is that you're letting representatives of deeply unpleasant businesses like the Islam Channel speak at your events. Can you not see a problem with that at all?

 

[audiotech]

Yes, but of that 7, 3 are members of the swp and 4 are trots (if Tariq Ali still describes himself thus). The notion that the swp and respect are involved in an islamic-trot alliance holds pretty well when you lookat that platform. My point was that its a bit difficult to argue that stwc or respect itself are 'broad base' when you look at those names.

Holds pretty well from where you're sitting don't you mean? All of the trots listed are opposed to any notion of a supreme being as you know. They are all, by their political position avowed materialists afterall. Doesn't mean you can't argue with those who are enthralled with the idea of a deity. Following on from your stated position now I doubt you would have come out with the same nonsense if you'd been about in the thirties when Jewish people were under attack?

 

[smokedout]

what i thought, for what its worth

Stop the War Coalition ... Time to go?

 

[audiotech]

Is anybody objecting to the presence of Muslims on anti-war marches?

The point is that you're letting representatives of deeply unpleasant businesses like the Islam Channel speak at your events. Can you not see a problem with that at all?

To clarify, I'm not involved, or organising any of these events.

To answer your question, I can see why Respect are inviting people from the Islam Channel. As muslims throughout the world are under attack and it is the job of anyone with an ounce of radicalism to stand beside them at this time. You can also try to attract them to a more progressive position whilst you're doing that.

btw how is the Islam Channel "deeply unpleasant"? Is it because they happen to follow some religion? I've got news for you, so do billions of other people.

Hey, but you keep on your no compromise, purist line and see how far it gets you.

Historically it seems not very far.

 

[audiotech]

what i thought, for what its worth

Stop the War Coalition ... Time to go?

pretty crap really.

On anarchists:

Meanwhile an anarchist bloc will be present on the Manchester March. Meet at 12.30 in the Peace Gardens, just round the corner from Albert Square on the day of the march. They'll be the lot with the red and black flags.

 

[Wilf]

Holds pretty well from where you're sitting don't you mean? All of the trots listed are opposed to any notion of a supreme being as you know. They are all, by their political position avowed materialists afterall. Doesn't mean you can't argue with those who are enthralled with the idea of a deity. Following on from your stated position now I doubt you would have come out with the same nonsense if you'd been about in the thirties when Jewish people were under attack?

I'm very confused by that. I KNOW the swp speakers are not themselves religious. The accusation of Islamo-trottery is not that swp members are adopting Islam - its that you (if you personally are in respect) are supporting a narrow and unprincipled alliance. The nature of that alliance is reproduced on this platform - something which confirms the nature of the stwc and excludes the wider mass of people who might be involved in opposing the war.

Oh, yes, you say: "Doesn't mean you can't argue with those who are enthralled with the idea of a deity". Now, I'd love to hear this - could you spell out how those arguments are going? Just how are you taking on these religious beliefs? Can we see it in policy, for example? Could you link us to a document for example?