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Managers killing football

chieftain said:
Wenger is bloody good, mind you if he's daft enough to square up to our BMJ (big Martin Jol) again that might all change;)

that was amusing. jol should be a bouncer or an east end crim... strange though he's so affable and smiley on camera. wouldn't want to cross him though, i'd reckon he'd rip your throat out
 
chieftain said:
Wenger is bloody good, mind you if he's daft enough to square up to our BMJ (big Martin Jol) again that might all change;)

In 10 years he has won 3 leagues and 4 cups, less than 1 major trophy a year. Don't misunderstand me, I think he is an excellent manager, just not going to be one of the greats imo.
 
ch750536 said:
In 10 years he has won 3 leagues and 4 cups, less than 1 major trophy a year. Don't misunderstand me, I think he is an excellent manager, just not going to be one of the greats imo.

your forgetting his influence on the whole league again. trophies important yes, but what sticks in people's minds is important. style. UNBEATEN SEASONS etc
 
jugularvein said:
your forgetting his influence on the whole league again. trophies important yes, but what sticks in people's minds is important. style. UNBEATEN SEASONS etc

He, like the team, will be remembered as runners up.
 
ch750536 said:
He was inspirational.

Would he have been more successful if he left the general tactics to the players?

According to Fowler's autobiography and Shaun Goater on Radio 5 recently, that's exactly what Keegan used to do. There was no tactical training under him at Man City or England apparently. The end product being a distinct lack of success.
 
ch750536 said:
In 10 years he has won 3 leagues and 4 cups, less than 1 major trophy a year. Don't misunderstand me, I think he is an excellent manager, just not going to be one of the greats imo.

I cant believe I'm defending a Gooner but that aside...... who is a great manager in your opinion, in fact I'd be interested in your top three

Wenger would have to feature highly in anyones eyes, he took the boring side of north london and gave them our glory, hes given them style, he's gone far in changing the attitude and approach of all of todays professional footballers into making them athletes as well as players, in fact I'd go as far as to say he has helped massively in shaping what a professional footballer in England is today.
 
RenegadeDog said:
In my opinion, the greatest in English club football history would be Clough. Took an average club to two European cups. Utterly remarkable.

That is remarkable but I would have to nominate Paisley.
 
chieftain said:
I cant believe I'm defending a Gooner but that aside...... who is a great manager in your opinion, in fact I'd be interested in your top three
Clough, Shankley, Ferguson, in that order.
 
When Roy Keane took over at Sunderland a few weeks ago, he revealed something about what made Clough a cut above other managers when he said something like 'There are loads of bullshit managers who talk about playing for the shirt and giving 110%, anyone can do that - but Clough would observe things about football matches that others didn't see and it was often those details that made a difference'

I think he put his finger on something there that is beyond the old arguments about motivation and tactics. Both of those are obviously important, but after a while professional players have heard it all before - what Keane was getting at was that Clough could tell the players things that weren't obvious, that when they put them into practice they worked. That's not the same as talking about 4-4-2 or 4-3-3, because those are just formations, but formations do not win games.

Jose Mourinho has this talent too. As well as having good motivational and team building skills, he has an eye for small details which others either do not see or might not think would make any difference, but he does. When he was Bobby Robson's assistant at Barca (his first step into management) Robson said that he was amazed at the details and insights that Mourinho would report back to him when he sent him to check up on other teams.
 
To say that Clough, Shankly were no more than motivators is to do a great injustice to them ( I will get to lucky alex later ) , They were watchers of a unrivaled level . They could watch a team ,watch a man see his faults see his weakness's and put across in a easy to understand manner a way to beat them . They new football inside out an in there pomp they were unbeatable , Certain people are leaders of men of a unparalleled level the type who new/know just what buttons to push to make you feel like your 10ft tall built of iron . Rolling these skills into one gave you what Shankly and Clough had imho and made them into the legends that they are . No one will ever achieve what Clough did with forrest the greatest ever feat in the world football .

As for Fergurson , well ..................... All i can call him is lucky , A bold statement some of you may say but he had a crop of players come through at united that wont happen to any team any were in the world again for a long time . He added to these with some modest purchase's that gave him a excellent team with leaders all over the field . The youngsters had a bit of learning to do but once they got a grip of things they sweaped all before them giving them a host of trophys . They only won the European cup once with a different manager in charge this would not have been the case imho . Now they have to rely on Fergersons acumen in the transfer market they will not win another league or european cup as a club until he retires . Fergie has got it wrong on the pitch so many times and has made more dud buys than good ones i can only think when he was born he dropped out of his mother into a big pile of something because he is lucky beyond belief .
 
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