Man stands up for freedom of speach

[taffboy gwyrdd]

I dont think there's much wrong with trying to circumnavigate the hold of the illigitimate corporate state over humans who are IMO freeborn. As CumbrianDragon intimates - the amount of sneering rejection here is weird. Yes, some of them appear liberatarian in a way we may not concur with. But liberty is too serious and under threat for us to be precious about other political preferences.

 

[moon23]

There is no legal argument. It's tin foil hattery, closely associated with a certain breed of right wing libertarians.

Seems just another way to make money out of guilable people

 

[FridgeMagnet]

It's an intrinsically delusional movement that actually supports the legal system; it just claims to have a way around it, and be the true exemplars of it. It's like saying someone claiming to be the rightful king of England is anti-monarchist.

They do seem to manage to confuse a lot of police in an amusing fashion, but then wearing a big furry fox head would probably do that too, and be as politically useful.

 

[CUMBRIANDRAGON]

I googled the four corners thing and noticed it is discussed on the David Icke forum, my natural inclination is we are entering tin foil country. Whats the legal argument for it and the wider movement surley that cant stand up in court???

Last week it did stand up in court just because its discussed on an icke forum does not mean a great deal.

The main thing does it work or not?

 

[CUMBRIANDRAGON]

There is no legal argument. It's tin foil hattery, closely associated with a certain breed of right wing libertarians.

Forget about right wing left wing .The main thing can protestors use some of the freeman stuff to defend themselves.

Like ive said ive got of with a on the spot fine my mate with help of john harris was able to clear up council tax debt and sort the bailiffs out.

 

[CUMBRIANDRAGON]

Long, painful thread on the whole Freeman thing.

It's arsegravy.

It was not arse gravy to darren pollard he walked free without signing anything.

Im not saying the whole freeman thing is correct some of it may not stand up in court. But there is alot of stuff comming out on TPUC.ORG that protestors can use to defend themselves in court.

Now stop throwing the baby out with the bathwater

 

[CUMBRIANDRAGON]

Seems just another way to make money out of guilable people

Ive not payed any money out. But ive saved money with the tpuc site.

 

[futha]

This video is quite funny too.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

A movement whose entire effect seems to be getting people off parking fines. That'll fucking rock the state on its bearings.

 

[Giles]

It was not arse gravy to darren pollard he walked free without signing anything.

Im not saying the whole freeman thing is correct some of it may not stand up in court. But there is alot of stuff comming out on TPUC.ORG that protestors can use to defend themselves in court.

Now stop throwing the baby out with the bathwater

As I said on the other thread about this: what would happen if we all did it?

"I'm a freeman, so I don't have to pay taxes, or fines, or obey any laws that I decide don't apply to me. Ha ha.".

It seems pretty antisocial, even if it does work legally, which I doubt.

Giles..

 

[CUMBRIANDRAGON]

A movement whose entire effect seems to be getting people off parking fines. That'll fucking rock the state on its bearings.

Thats being very narrow minded. Its better than going on endless demo's and marches which achieve almost nothing.
The whole left needs a kick up the backside because alot of left wing groups are now used as cannon fodder by the bnp for publicity.

 

[CUMBRIANDRAGON]

As I said on the other thread about this: what would happen if we all did it?

"I'm a freeman, so I don't have to pay taxes, or fines, or obey any laws that I decide don't apply to me. Ha ha.".

It seems pretty antisocial, even if it does work legally, which I doubt.

Giles..

Maybe we could have a chance to form anachist federations

 

[PeterTCA]

I found the video entirely heart-warming. Full marks to Darren. And what courage! I couldn't consider doing that this side of seven pints. The old slogan applies: Too Many Chiefs - Not Enough Anarchists!

 

[moon23]

Ive not payed any money out. But ive saved money with the tpuc site.

So what? Its not about you as in individual like Icke some people will buy the DVD, pay to see them talk, and donate. Maybe they are even crazy enough to believe it themselves. The site contains a few useful tips on obstructing legal action and consumer law all conspiracy theories contain an element of truth.

 

[moon23]

I found the video entirely heart-warming. Full marks to Darren. And what courage! I couldn't consider doing that this side of seven pints. The old slogan applies: Too Many Chiefs - Not Enough Anarchists!

What did he achieve? He managed to advertise a load of half baked ideas that that will probably get some kid on the wrong side of the law and he made himself look like a madman to most passers by other than a few emo kids who thought it was LOL

 

[CUMBRIANDRAGON]

I found the video entirely heart-warming. Full marks to Darren. And what courage! I couldn't consider doing that this side of seven pints. The old slogan applies: Too Many Chiefs - Not Enough Anarchists!

Yes hes a good chap darren and he stood his ground would not back down and in the end after spending one night in winston green jail they had to let him out because he would not play their game.

Alot of anachism these days has just become to much of an academic subject without little substance.

 

[CUMBRIANDRAGON]

What did he achieve? He managed to advertise a load of half baked ideas that that will probably get some kid on the wrong side of the law and he made himself look like a madman to most passers by other than a few emo kids who thought it was LOL

Another pro establishment sheep. Why are so many people against ideas that challenge the establishment. These same people will also be talking about revolution you couldnt make it up.

 

[CUMBRIANDRAGON]

What did he achieve? He managed to advertise a load of half baked ideas that that will probably get some kid on the wrong side of the law and he made himself look like a madman to most passers by other than a few emo kids who thought it was LOL

Maybe you should educate people about the dangers of demonstrations this again could get some kid on the wrong side of the law.

 

[moon23]

Another pro establishment sheep. Why are so many people against ideas that challenge the establishment. These same people will also be talking about revolution you couldnt make it up.

Because ideas like this lead activists like yourself down rabbit holes and away from any from of meaningful action.

 

[moon23]

Maybe you should educate people about the dangers of demonstrations this again could get some kid on the wrong side of the law.

What relevance does demonstrating have on this? Is that the only alternative action you can imagine? Where have I advocated demonstating on this thread? You do also realise its not illegal to demonstrate? Any activist worth thier salt would give advice on how to avoid getting nicked on a demo anyway to friends and young people.

 

[ajdown]

Any activist worth thier salt would give advice on how to avoid getting nicked on a demo anyway to friends and young people.

I suppose in a way he did... "hey guys, this is how not to demostrate".

 

[In Bloom]

Another pro establishment sheep. Why are so many people against ideas that challenge the establishment.

FYI: The Freeman stuff does not challenge "the establishment", it's nonsense.

 

[Giles]

And what is all this "maritime law" stuff about?

That whole "meme" is pure unadulterated nonsense.

Maritime law is just a set of laws governing the conduct of ships at sea, their crews, salvage rights, insurance, that sort of thing. Quite boring.

But there is a whole industry of fools claiming all sorts of bizarre and out-there conspiracies.

If anyone wants a clear, concise explanation of this, see here:


FFS.

Giles..

 

[moon23]

FYI: The Freeman stuff does not challenge "the establishment", it's nonsense.

I like that cartoon, it’s so very true. A particular trait of conspiracy theorist is the idea that only their sect knows the truth and everyone else is sheep. It’s very seductive as we all like to feel special and/or more intelligent than each other.

The problem with the Freeman thing is it takes an abstracted romanticized notion of a historic social legal system (Common Law) and imbues it with a Natural Law theory derived not from any reasoned principles but divinity. Yes that’s right it’s God that grants you these natural rights.

Aside from the obvious point that different unverifiable claims can be made as to what is or isn’t a particular natural right it totally ignores the reality that common law was a socially constructed contract between people that resulted from a particular medieval power relationship. The vast majority of people were not ‘Freemen’ they were serfs tied to a Lord or Apprentices tied in bonded Labour to a trade. The common law of the land was barley upheld for anyone other than those with the power to demand respect. The Magna Carta was not written to grant everyone wonderful freedoms, but to enable a bunch of Baron’s to increase their power over the King.

By ignoring to provide any analyse of power structures, class struggle, meaningful solidarity, collective action and ownership, exploitation, Freemanship fails to understand the current social dynamics of our society.

Instead from what I see it’s adherents group together to try and find ways to dodge taxation systems to increase their own private wealth; shout like bag women in parks at people through megaphones, and waste police and court times by getting themselves nicked for breach of the peace.

If he hadn’t been such an idiot, not only would he still probably have had charges dropped, he wouldn’t have had to spend another night in the cells.

There is a difference between challenging authority, and resisting a challenge from authority.

 

[moon23]

The amusing thing is that Breach of the Peace is a common law offense anyway.

 

[CUMBRIANDRAGON]

FYI: The Freeman stuff does not challenge "the establishment", it's nonsense.

I cant see much of the left challenging the establishment. Instead of building a working class movement they have substituted it for an anti bnp movement.

The freeman movement does give many people more rights while we are waiting for the left to get its head out of the sand

 

[In Bloom]

The freeman movement does give many people more rights

It does no such thing. You can call yourself whatever the fuck you like, but it won't make you any less vulnerable to prosecution if you are caught breaking the law.

 

[Giles]

It does no such thing. You can call yourself whatever the fuck you like, but it won't make you any less vulnerable to prosecution if you are caught breaking the law.

This is what they don't seem to get: if you are in the UK, then you are bound by its laws. Even if you are foreign (albeit with some exceptions for diplomats as agreed in various treaties).

You cannot generally exempt yourself from obeying the law of the land simply by calling yourself a freeman, a lizard-man, a Martian or anything else.

Giles..

 

[untethered]

Freedom of speech starts with spelling "speech" correctly in the thread title.

A little test for "freemen": Go and rob a bank and see how far your assertions of legal independence get you.

 

[danny la rouge]

Freedom of speech starts with spelling "speech" correctly in the thread title.

Fascist!


(Although: Mrs M! Help!).