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Making calls and texting when driving: discussion

Global_Stoner;9161155]I'd say the hours that these guys have to do has as much a bearing.[/QUOTE]Have you any idea how many hours he'd worked that day said:
So he was being an idiot then? I've sat a PCV test, just because you being paid to do the job and sat another test, doesn't make you a better driver then somebody who hasn't.
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Please read the thread. I never made such a claim. I said, "more experienced" and that he was a "professional driver." This was being disputed by Descartes.
 
Your Link said:
The scientific literature is mixed on the dangers of talking on a cell phone versus those of talking with a passenger. The common conception is that passengers are able to better regulate conversation based on the perceived level of danger, therefore the risk is negligible. A study by a University of South Carolina psychology researcher featured in the journal, Experimental Psychology, found that planning to speak and speaking put far more demands on the brain’s resources than listening. Measurement of attention levels showed that subjects were four times more distracted while preparing to speak or speaking than when they were listening.[18] The Accident Research Unit at the University of Nottingham found that the number of utterances was usually higher for mobile calls when compared to blindfolded and non-blindfolded passengers across various driving conditions. The number of questions asked averaged slightly higher for mobile phone conversations, although results were not constant across road types and largely influenced by a large number of questions on the urban roads.[19] A 2004 University of Utah simulation study that compared passenger and cell-phone conversations concluded that the driver performs better when conversing with a passenger because the traffic and driving task become part of the conversation. Drivers holding conversations on cell phones were four times more likely to miss the highway exit than those with passengers, and drivers conversing with passengers showed no statistically significant difference from lone drivers in the simulator.[20] A study led by Andrew Parkes at the Transport Research Laboratory, also with a driving simulator, concluded that hands-free phone conversations impair driving performance more than other common in-vehicle distractions such as passenger conversations.[21]

In contrast, the University of Illinois meta-analysis concluded that passenger conversations were just as costly to driving performance as cell phone ones.[10] AAA ranks passengers as the third most reported cause of distraction-related accidents at 11 percent, compared to 1.5 percent for cellular telephones.[12] A simulation study funded by the American Transportation Research Board concluded that driving events that require urgent responses may be influenced by in-vehicle conversations, and that there is little practical evidence that passengers adjusted their conversations to changes in the traffic. It concluded that drivers' training should address the hazards of both mobile phone and passenger conversations.[22]
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From your own link. Nothing like selective quoting then Ed. Do you drive?
 
Can I just say it's refreshing to see someone who doesn't drive joshing with people who do. I LOL'd at the situation...
 
Global_Stoner said:
From your own link. Nothing like selective quoting then Ed. Do you drive?
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Not sure what's that's got to do with anything - I don't box in the ring, but I'm aware of the dangers of the sport.

I can also read all the research that's been posted up about using a phone when driving, and the vast majority of that says that mobile phone use increases the danger to others: e.g.:

Roger Vincent, of the Royal Society for the Prevention of Accidents, said: 'When you are using any mobile while driving you are four times more likely to have an accident.'
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soulman said:
Can I just say it's refreshing to see someone who doesn't drive joshing with people who do. I LOL'd at the situation...
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Don't try and ruin the thread please.
 
editor said:
Not sure what's that's got to do with anything - I don't box in the ring, but I'm aware of the dangers of the sport.
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Because your not a stupid bloke and it all seems like hyperbole to me. I do own a hands free set and use when driving. I'm asking for your experiences of trying what your so quick to condemn and make your own judgement. I wouldn't use one in a very busy urban area, but then I wouldn't pay much attention to my passengers either. I'd use my judgement as when to hold a conversation of any type.
 
Global_Stoner said:
Because your not a stupid bloke and it all seems like hyperbole to me. I do own a hands free set and use when driving. I'm asking for your experiences of trying what your so quick to condemn and make your own judgement. I wouldn't use one in a very busy urban area, but then I wouldn't pay much attention to my passengers either. I'd use my judgement as when to hold a conversation of any type.
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But what about the people who do use them in very busy urban areas? Or people - like the lorry driver - who don't seem to think it has any effect on their driving at all?

And it's not me 'condemning' anyone - I'm merely stating what the research (and, to be honest, common sense) says. The less toys there are to distract drivers the better, imo. If you want to have a chat on your phone, pull over.
 
editor said:
But what about the people who do use them in very busy urban areas? Or people - like the lorry driver - who don't seem to think it has any effect on their driving at all?

And it's not me 'condemning' anyone - I'm merely stating what the research (and, to be honest, common sense) says. The less toys there are to distract drivers the better, imo, and if you want to have a chat on your phone, pull over.
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We have a law to deal with that. It's not driving with due care and attention, which is my opinion is enough to cover it. What are you going to ban next? Adjusting wiper speed? Checking fuel consumption? Listening to music? Applying make up? Looking at speedo? I'd support harsher sentences for people being idiots and if they are to selfish to think about others, then make them think about what could happen to them if they mess up.

I think the point about not being a driver is relevant. It's like you arguing the merits about how easy Pre vs Iphone vs Android are to use without using them and just reading what Engadet says. Of course the consequences are far worse, but the principal stands.
 
Global_Stoner said:
We have a law to deal with that. It's not driving with due care and attention, which is my opinion is enough to cover it. What are you going to ban next? Adjusting wiper speed? Checking fuel consumption? Listening to music? Applying make up? Looking at speedo? I'd support harsher sentences for people being idiots and if they are to selfish to think about others, then make them think about what could happen to them if they mess up.
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If research proved that any of the driving-unrelated activities above introduced unnecessary risks and made people four times more likely to have an accident, then yes. You're in a car not an office and if you want to have a little chat on your phone, pull over. Why is that so hard? It's what I do if I get a call on my bike.
 
Roadkill said:
I agree that someone texting whilst stationary in traffic isn't posing any great danger, but as soon as you start introducing caveats into the law and saying 'using a mobile phone behind the wheel is illegal unless x, y or z' then you overcomplicate things and leave all sorts of get-out clauses. As it stands the law is clear and simple: if you're driving, don't use a hand-held phone. It's not that hard to pull over if you really need to make a call or send a text, is it?
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I agree, but think that such caveats come into play in enforcing the law. I would feel fairly aggrieved to be fined for sending a text whilst in stationary traffic, you'd like to imagine some discretion would be used.
 
beeboo said:
I agree, but think that such caveats come into play in enforcing the law. I would feel fairly aggrieved to be fined for sending a text whilst in stationary traffic, you'd like to imagine some discretion would be used.
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I think often it is, but sometimes it is not, which is when you hear about it- usually in the right wing papers.

There was a woman not too long ago who got fined for taking a sip of water from a bottle while the car was either completely stationary in a traffic jam, or just inching forward at 1mph.

IMO that's just not on and general cuntiness from the officer who gave her the fine.
 
T & P said:
I think often it is, but sometimes it is not, which is when you hear about it- usually in the right wing papers.

There was a woman not too long ago who got fined for taking a sip of water from a bottle while the car was either completely stationary in a traffic jam, or just inching forward at 1mph.
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That's clearly plain daft if it happened as you say.
 
Roadkill said:
I agree that someone texting whilst stationary in traffic isn't posing any great danger, but as soon as you start introducing caveats into the law and saying 'using a mobile phone behind the wheel is illegal unless x, y or z' then you overcomplicate things and leave all sorts of get-out clauses. As it stands the law is clear and simple: if you're driving, don't use a hand-held phone. It's not that hard to pull over if you really need to make a call or send a text, is it?
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It is clear and simple but the law could be made more reasonable and still be clear and simple. "No using a hand held phone whilst the vehicle is in motion" is far more sane and no less concise.
 
The amount of reckless, selfish twats I see driving while talking on their phones - or even texting - remains shockingly high.
 
I still see plenty of people blatantly holding a phone with one hand whilst driving. It really pisses me off :mad: Where are the coppers when you need them?

Though when I'm on the bike I can have my little revenge. If it's safe to do so, I drive up to the driver's window and ride parallel to them. Invariably, after a few seconds they catch a glimpse of my hi-vis jacket, think it's a copper and promptly drop the phone and put both hands on the steering wheel. A "get off the bloody phone!" shout finishes things off :D
 
Spymaster said:
It is clear and simple but the law could be made more reasonable and still be clear and simple. "No using a hand held phone whilst the vehicle is in motion" is far more sane and no less concise.
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I suppose the law could be framed that way, but I don't see what's so unreasonable about expecting people to pull over before making a call or sending a text.

That said, I take beeboo's point about it being a bit harsh to fine someone if they're stationary in traffic. The law is IMO fair enough as it stands, but like a lot of laws, there's no reason why there shouldn't be some discretion in applying it.
 
editor said:
The amount of reckless, selfish twats I see driving while talking on their phones - or even texting - remains shockingly high.
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Based on personal observation I must say that when I witness a piece of utterly fuckwitted driving, there appears to be a much higher than average probability that driver will be using a handheld mobile.

Whether that is because the kind of fuckwit who drives with complete ignorance of other road-users is also the kind of fuckwit who sees no problem with using their phone whilst driving, or because using their phone is causing them to be oblivious to what else is going on around them, I couldn't say.
 
He was driving a Scania HGV, and his job was described in court as being a "lorry driver," so I'd say that makes him a professional driver.
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Can you post the link and then I can research for myself. Was this taken from the local papers or the Coroners' Report?

Was he gainfully employed full time as a 'Lorry Driver' or part time?

What class of drivers' license did he hold?

Any pertinent information would be appreciated to reach a fully informed decision. Address and date of court hearing, if from Coroners' Court, or date and name of newspaper.

The description of 'lorry Driver' can be applied to someone holding a normal driving license and below the weight limit of 7.5 tonnes.

An 18 year old driving license holder can drive: Lorries between 3500kg and 7500kg with a trailer up to 750kg.

But, hardly meeting the description of Lorry when compared with larger and trans-continental vehicles. Both Articulated and rigid.
 
beeboo said:
I agree, but think that such caveats come into play in enforcing the law. I would feel fairly aggrieved to be fined for sending a text whilst in stationary traffic, you'd like to imagine some discretion would be used.
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Why? The law is actually pretty clear for once.

The only thing that irks me is that it is so patchilly enforced and in my area at least, mobile use whilst driving appears to have gone right back-up to virtually pre-ban levels. :mad:

Also read that some areas are using remote ticketing via CCTV for mobile use and whilst I really don't like the idea of using CCTV for this, I equally find it hard to criticise in this circumstance.
 
beeboo said:
Based on personal observation I must say that when I witness a piece of utterly fuckwitted driving, there appears to be a much higher than average probability that driver will be using a handheld mobile.
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Ive seen any number of handsfree drivers who are just as bad - chattering away wildly, with heads thrown back or heads shaking and often with one or even both hands gesticulating wildly. Then there are the ones with a notebook or whatever over the steering wheel, talking and scribbling - There is no way on earth that is being in control of a vehicle. :mad:
 
Descartes said:
Can you post the link and then I can research for myself. Was this taken from the local papers or the Coroners' Report?

Was he gainfully employed full time as a 'Lorry Driver' or part time?

What class of drivers' license did he hold?

Any pertinent information would be appreciated to reach a fully informed decision. Address and date of court hearing, if from Coroners' Court, or date and name of newspaper.

The description of 'lorry Driver' can be applied to someone holding a normal driving license and below the weight limit of 7.5 tonnes.

An 18 year old driving license holder can drive: Lorries between 3500kg and 7500kg with a trailer up to 750kg.

But, hardly meeting the description of Lorry when compared with larger and trans-continental vehicles. Both Articulated and rigid.
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Good grief. This is desperate stuff. He was driving a Scania HGV and had been driving HGV lorries for 25 years.

Scania HGVs look like this:

scania_lg.jpg


Instead of scrambling around for excuses, perhaps you should read this:
According to a study by the Transport Research Laboratory (TRL) drivers are four times more likely to have an accident while using any mobile phone.

Reaction times were slower than those under the influence of alcohol and it found the risk of an accident was raised for up to 10 minutes after a hands-free call had been made, suggesting a driver remained preoccupied long after a call ended.

"Drivers found it easier to drive drunk than to drive while using a phone, even when it was hands-free," says a TRL spokesman.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7152551.stm
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The Department of Transport's official stance making hands-free phone calls is that they are a "distraction" and should be avoided.

But the government-funded Transport Research Laboratory has found that even hands-free phone calls make drivers four times more likely to have an accident, with concentration levels reduced for 10 minutes after the call has ended.

The research also showed that drivers making hands-free calls had slower reaction times than those who were slightly over the drink-drive limit.

Some businesses, including the FirstGroup transport company, which employs 135,000, have already imposed their own bans on employees making any sort of phone call whilst driving on company business because of the dangers of doing so.

PC Gary Chance, of Lincolnshire police, said: "Driving is a skill that requires attention at all times. It has to be considered that the use of a mobile, even hands-free, was a major factor in this accident."

Richmond is not the first driver to be jailed for killing someone while using a hands-free phone. In 2003 Michael Leach, 29, was jailed for four years at Exeter Crown Court for a similar offence and in 2001 Roger Murray, a 37-year-old lorry driver, was jailed for 18 months in Ayr for causing a fatal crash while on his hands-free phone.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/2201008/Driver-using-hands-free-phone-caused-fatal-crash.html
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It is not possible to record the use of hands-free mobile phones accurately on motorways because of the speed of the traffic
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This sentence is under the percentage use of phones in a survey carried out by the Road Transport Laboratory, from 39 sites and across the UK over the period Oct 2007 to 2008

Table 3: Percentage of van and lorry drivers using mobile phones, weekdays
.........October 2007 ............September 2008
% Hand-held Hands-free,,,, Overall Hand-held Hands-free Overall
Van drivers...........2.2 .......0.9 .......... ....3.1....... 2.2.......... 0.8....... 3.0
Lorry drivers... .......1.0.......1.0................2.0.........1.0...........0.5........1.5

Given the opening statement from such an authoritative group....

By the way Ed, I know what a Scania is but what model and year of vehicle was he driving as it does make a huge difference. The link would be appreciated.
 
pogofish said:
Why? The law is actually pretty clear for once.
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The law might be clear but luckily we live in a society where compromises are made and common sense used to reach the fairest decision possible.

Nothing is gained by antagonising people for very minor technical breaches of the law. I don't know if you drink, but if you do I'm pretty sure you would not appreciate being fined and cautioned by the police for simply being a bit merry in a pub. Yet you are breaking the law if you are drunk, however little you might be, whilst in a public house.

It is every bit as ludicrous to fine drivers for eating something or texting while the car is stationary as it would be to fine people for being slightly drunk in a pub.
 
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