Majority-Scabbing: what to do about it?

[Badger Kitten]

Well, this thread's not exactly brimming over with answers to the problem, is it? I didn't think it would be, somehow. Which explains why the mock-left's tactic in real life is just to pretend it doesn't happen.

Eh?

What answers do you, a ''PROPER left wing socialist'' have to the problem? And who here has suggested as a ''tactic'' just to pretend that it doesn't happen? You don't half leap nimbly from prejudice to projected conclusion, by-passing fact and fairness on the way.

 

[selamlar]

Eh?

What answers do you, a ''PROPER left wing socialist'' have to the problem? And who here has suggested as a ''tactic'' just to pretend that it doesn't happen? You don't half leap nimbly from prejudice to projected conclusion, by-passing fact and fairness on the way.

I'm not entirely sure if its a very new or a very old tactic, but it goes:

'Bet you don't know about X'

Various replies, quite often saying 'Oh yes we do'

'See, I said you didn't know about X'

There is probably a proper name for it, other than irritating bollocks, but which ever way, it aint' worth worrying about.

 

[selamlar]

Actually, its 'begging the question'. There you go. I remembered!

 

[Badger Kitten]

 

[Louis MacNeice]

Well, this thread's not exactly brimming over with answers to the problem, is it? I didn't think it would be, somehow. Which explains why the mock-left's tactic in real life is just to pretend it doesn't happen.

The answer is there - take individual responsibility for your choice to either abide by a collective decision or not - just don't expect a pat on the back for choosing to opt out of solidarity (not that you have but it seems to be what KBJ is after).

Louis MacNeice

 

[poster342002]

The answer is there - take individual responsibility for your choice to either abide by a collective decision or not - just don't expect a pat on the back for choosing to opt out of solidarity (not that you have but it seems to be what KBJ is after).

Louis MacNeice

Fair enough - but I have to ask what solidarity is there to opt-out of when you've got majority-scabbing (by a vast margin)?

 

[frogwoman]

The first small thing to do is to find out why they're not striking. And that means talking to them.

indeed

 

[poster342002]

When talking to people about it, the most common answer is "I can't afford to strike" or "we rely on the reps to sort our problems out". Occasionally, you get truly absurd excuses like "I'd miss my tabletennis class at lunchtime".

I've reached the stage where I've stopped asking them why they do it - the circular, tortuos logic they apply in defence of themselves is just inpenetrable.

 

[Wolveryeti]

What do you do if you work in a place where - whenever any strike action is called - the vast majority of the membership scabs on the day and only the branch officials end up taking part in the strike?

Straight question that I've never heard the mock-left give any sort of answer to - apart from evasiveness or outright denials.

You should fuck off and accept people's rights to be individuals, that's what you should do.

 

[butchersapron]

You should fuck off and accept people's rights to be individuals, that's what you should do.

Step 1) talk to people to achieve

step 2) isolation of freaks like this from people who have specific rather than general anti-union reasons for working. Identify *who* you're talking to and *why*.

step 3) bit of dialogue i suppose

 

[the button]

What do you do if you work in a place where - whenever any strike action is called - the vast majority of the membership scabs on the day and only the branch officials end up taking part in the strike?

Mercifully this never happened when I was a rep, although we did get the odd scab. What I used to do under those circumstances was... OK, rephrase that, the only one of the number of things that I used to do under those circumstances that would be appropriate with the scenario in the OP was wait for them to approach me for representation.

Obviously, I couldn't turn them down, but what I used to say was something along the lines of, "You do realise that when it comes down to it, the only power we have to stop the management from walking all over us is when we take action together? Even your 'personal case', which you think is just about you, relies on terms & conditions of employment which were won through people like us sticking together. So just you think on." Etc.

On the other hand, there's lots of things you can do to make going on strike more fun for people who don't necessarily see it as a not-to-be-missed opportunity for the articulation of working class power (i.e. most people). What we used to do was organise a post-picket social -- maybe a cheap meal out & go to the pictures or something. Not only did it make people more likely to turn out for the picket line, it gave them something to talk about the next day at work (if it was a one day strike), and helped create some feeling of belonging to something.

 

[urbanrevolt]

Mercifully this never happened when I was a rep, although we did get the odd scab. What I used to do under those circumstances was... OK, rephrase that, the only one of the number of things that I used to do under those circumstances that would be appropriate with the scenario in the OP was wait for them to approach me for representation.

Obviously, I couldn't turn them down, but what I used to say was something along the lines of, "You do realise that when it comes down to it, the only power we have to stop the management from walking all over us is when we take action together? Even your 'personal case', which you think is just about you, relies on terms & conditions of employment which were won through people like us sticking together. So just you think on." Etc.

On the other hand, there's lots of things you can do to make going on strike more fun for people who don't necessarily see it as a not-to-be-missed opportunity for the articulation of working class power (i.e. most people). What we used to do was organise a post-picket social -- maybe a cheap meal out & go to the pictures or something. Not only did it make people more likely to turn out for the picket line, it gave them something to talk about the next day at work (if it was a one day strike), and helped create some feeling of belonging to something.

Some good suggestions. I can understand that the scenario in the op is deeply frutrating and may begin to explain why the poster seems so cynical a lot of the time.

There are other things possible- dialogue as butchers suggests, trying to see what people do want to organise around, seeing if there are things we can begin to achieve by collective action. I can acknowledge that a lot of this may be very hard in a workplace where many workers see no point whatsoever in union action and the few who would like there to be more would get very easily demoralised. It's a kind of feedback situation- the less likely any kind of collective action seems to be able to achieve anything the less likely anyone will want to join in. Of course it can work in reverse- as soon as people see collective action beginning to work just a little bit then it is more likely people will get more assertive and more collective and then things begin to turn around.

I suspect the poster will say all the above things have been tried and not worked. I can accept that there may be some workplaces like that and if you're in one I'd in the longer term try and get another job in a better office or if that's not practical put my political energies into other areas, whilst still giving it a bit of a go every now and again in the office.


That and realise that not every office or workplace is like yours. The truly militant ones are I think the exception and workplaces like posters porbably do outnumber them considerably but nevertheless in many workplaces a little bit of union or other collective organisation can begin to make a little bit of difference even if it's not massive at first.

I certainly wouldn't base all my political beliefs on what I can mange to achieve in my workplace. That truly would- in many cases anyway- lead to demoralisation.

But we do need to acknowledge that there are some workplaces where union activists can make a real difference and if the rank and file get organised in those and connect with each other in informal networks that is important.

 

[the button]

trying to see what people do want to organise around

This is the key, IMO. Far too often, union leaderships (even "left-leaning" ones) try to use the members as a tool to "send a message to New Labour." This is particularly the case with one-day strikes, I reckon.

 

[Prince Rhyus]

Half the problem is that the mindset of those running the unions is so "last millennium".

Dammit, even the idea of having so many different unions as they are currently structured does not make it any easier to stay within the movement.

Back in the day, people had much more longer term job stability. Thus you could join a union for life. These days it's not the case. Therefore, every time you move job you are potentially having to leave and join a union all over again.

The idea that trade unions should automatically be affiliated to any political party is a nonsense and the sooner Sir Hayden Phillips' recommendations are implemented the better, because it will mean that unions can spend their funds campaigning on issues rather than bankrolling a political party that arguably takes the funding it gets from the unions for granted.

As society has become more mobile, so the social institutions that have held it together have declined. This goes for established churches and the old working mens clubs. Can the unions turn themselves around to make their organisations more relevant to their members or will it always be the case that the majority of members will see union membership as a form of workplace insurance rather than something more?

Personally, I'd like to see unions making a much more clear case for striking to the general public in order to gain more backing from people in general. That would mean a little bit less of "We're striking for our jobs and our pensions" and a little bit more of "We're striking for you. They want to take away your public services that you have a right to. Don't let them do it."

 

[poster342002]

Step 1) talk to people to achieve

step 2) isolation of freaks like this from people who have specific rather than general anti-union reasons for working. Identify *who* you're talking to and *why*.

step 3) bit of dialogue i suppose

All tried, to no avail.

 

[poster342002]

wait for them to approach me for representation.

Obviously, I couldn't turn them down, but what I used to say was something along the lines of, "You do realise that when it comes down to it, the only power we have to stop the management from walking all over us is when we take action together? Even your 'personal case', which you think is just about you, relies on terms & conditions of employment which were won through people like us sticking together. So just you think on." Etc.

Mae myself hoarse saying it - all goes staright out the other ear (if it even gets through the first one)

On the other hand, there's lots of things you can do to make going on strike more fun for people who don't necessarily see it as a not-to-be-missed opportunity for the articulation of working class power (i.e. most people). What we used to do was organise a post-picket social -- maybe a cheap meal out & go to the pictures or something. Not only did it make people more likely to turn out for the picket line, it gave them something to talk about the next day at work (if it was a one day strike), and helped create some feeling of belonging to something.

Most people commute in from buttfuck-on-the-nowhere and I can't see them coming all that way just to go for a meal if they refuse to even stay at home on strike days.

 

[cesare]

Have you got anyone to give you a hand, poster342002? Or are you entirely the lone voice in the wilderness?

 

[KeyboardJockey]

Personally, I'd like to see unions making a much more clear case for striking to the general public in order to gain more backing from people in general. That would mean a little bit less of "We're striking for our jobs and our pensions" and a little bit more of "We're striking for you. They want to take away your public services that you have a right to. Don't let them do it."

Yup Agree with you PR. The way the unions have sold themselves to the public in a hostile media environment and in a culture that doesn't see any relevance for unions has been a disaster.

This would be a good start.

Treating unions like product might also help gain recognition much more.

 

[poster342002]

That and realise that not every office or workplace is like yours.

The vast majority of them are. I used to try and fool myself that it was just wherever I happened to be working that was a total joke (from reading too much hyperbolic reports of "brilliant! massive!" strikes in the leftist press ), but after almost two decades working in various places - all of which seem to be like this - I've reached the logical conclusion that few (if any) workplaces have even a smidgeion of solidarity in them. In it's place is backstabbing bitchiness, rank-pulling, workplace bullying and corporate-ladderclimbing.

 

[poster342002]

Have you got anyone to give you a hand, poster342002? Or are you entirely the lone voice in the wilderness?

You've got the (rather good, in my opinion) reps - but they're all mostly enaged on 100% TU work and simply don't see how bad the attitudes are "at the coalface".

 

[cesare]

You've got the (rather good, in my opinion) reps - but they're all mostly enaged on 100% TU work and simply don't see how bad the attitudes are "at the coalface".

Workplace organisation is TU work. Let them know what problems you're facing and ask for some active support.

 

[poster342002]

Workplace organisation is TU work. Let them know what problems you're facing and ask for some active support.

What I mean is, they mostly don't have 'ordinary' jobs in the workplace - but are engaged in 100% facility time work either in the TU room or at meetings, conferences etc.

I've tried explaining how reactioanary the attitues on the floor are, but I get the feeling they have trouble beleiving to be as bad as it is (probably from mixing with too many like-minded people all telling themselves things are better than they are).

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

What do you do if you work in a place where - whenever any strike action is called - the vast majority of the membership scabs on the day and only the branch officials end up taking part in the strike?

Straight question that I've never heard the mock-left give any sort of answer to - apart from evasiveness or outright denials.

bugger all you can do about it really tbh it's undferstandable in most places which woud allow you to strike these days in the frist place... as they are on such low incomes that they cannot afford to miss out on pay sometimes even for a couple of days. surely the answer isn't to fall in on yourselves but to attacka system which would ever need the withdrawal of labour to be the appropreate response to their missives.

 

[cesare]

What I mean is, they mostly don't have 'ordinary' jobs in the workplace - but are engaged in 100% facility time work either in the TU room or at meetings, conferences etc.

I've tried explaining how reactioanary the attitues on the floor are, but I get the feeling they have trouble beleiving to be as bad as it is (probably from mixing with too many like-minded people all telling themselves things are better than they are).

You could try asking one of them to visit so they could have a chat with some of the members?

 

[poster342002]

You could try asking one of them to visit so they could have a chat with some of the members?

They've done that - no-one listens. Or they "humour" the rep until they go away, giving them a fale impression that things are better than they are.

As an aside, the Education & Employment section of this forum is a far better barometer of workplace attitudes than P&P is. Just look at the proliferation of braying "oh, woe is me - I "have" to sack someone" threads lately.

 

[cesare]

They've done that - no-one listens. Or they "humour" the rep until they go away, giving them a fale impression that things are better than they are.

Is there anyone remotely sympathetic in your workplace?

 

[poster342002]

Is there anyone remotely sympathetic in your workplace?

One or two isolated cases - most of whom will only agree in private and won't stick their head above the parapet in public.

 

[cesare]

One or two isolated cases - most of whom will only agree in private and won't stick their head above the parapet in public.

What would happen if they stuck their head above the parapet?

 

[KeyboardJockey]

What would happen if they stuck their head above the parapet?

They'd probably get it shot off.

 

[poster342002]

What would happen if they stuck their head above the parapet?

They'd worry about their corporate-ladderclimbing prospects or what their line-manager would think. Sad, pathetic, but true.