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Majority of the world backs Iran

I had actually mentioned it in my draft reply (how posh!) and would have said that I suspect you don't take "annihilating Zionism" seriously, but then that could also suggest you don't want to see an end to Zionism which you probably do so I left it out!
Zionism as a philosophy and as a practice I (speaking personally) find acceptable in some forms but not in others. A Zionism that relies on the oppression of others, such as the nationalist-Zionism practiced by much of the power-elite in the state of Israel, I find unacceptable and morally reprehensible.
Yes it does. All out war against Israel and occupation of that land...that's one (slightly deranged) method...

We're talking about solutions that might work, surely? :)
 
Nino: Mandela WAS certainly the leader: www.wsu.edu:8080/~wldciv/world_civ_reader/world_civ_reader_2/umkhonto.html

An apology would be nice but we all know how that will turn out. I would settle for you actually learning about the subject.

Panda: The C-Span show evidently paid off.

Not really, or you'd know that Mandela was head of Umkhonto we Sizwe for less than a year before being imprisoned, and given the "closed" prison system in the RSA, was unable to continue in that role.
So while you'd be right to state that he was the leader (as long as you made clear how short his tenure was), you'd be wrong to attribute to him the kind of behaviour that you have attributed to him. But them you have odd ideas about responsibility, don't you?
 
*What!? You didn't hear about this in the Western media? Surely not!!

stories like these aren't reported in the mainstream US media. i wonder why. i guess you'll have to look at who is running the mainstream US media, innit?
 
Zionism as a philosophy and as a practice I (speaking personally) find acceptable in some forms but not in others. A Zionism that relies on the oppression of others, such as the nationalist-Zionism practiced by much of the power-elite in the state of Israel, I find unacceptable and morally reprehensible.

We're talking about solutions that might work, surely? :)
I think one problem is, as highlighted by your post above (which I agree with btw) is that Zionism means different things to different people. To most Israelis (and Jews?) it simply means the establishment of a Jewish nation (anywhere), and therefore, Israel = Zionism. To the Palestinian supporters of the left, Zionism means the occupation and oppression of a foreign land. So when people argue over whether Zionism should be opposed or accepted, it makes the arguments very confusing, especially when their arguments are based on different definitions of Zionism.

For example, an Israeli might take exception to someone saying Zionism should be opposed (because of Israeli expansion in Palestine) because they might think they actually mean Israel should cease to exist. Likewise, a left-wing pro-Palestinian supporter might think that when an Israeli says they support Zionism they actually support the oppression of Palestinians, rather than supporting the continued existence of Israel.

The problem when it comes to Iran is that people use their own definitions of what Zionism means to either exonerate or vilify Ahmadinejad. If Zionism merely means the existence of Israel, then Ahmadinejad becomes the bad guy for suggesting Israel should be annihilated. But if Zionism means the oppression of Palestinians, then Ahmadinejad becomes some kind of righteous figurehead of a campaign for justice.

So what do I think Ahmadinejad means? Well in all honesty, I would say that when he refers to Zionism he actually means Israel. Do I think his threats are genuine or mere sabre rattling? I'd say most certainly the latter, but it gives ammunition to those who oppose Iran and those who support action against Iran. I think the comments he makes are just daft, as I don't think he has any intentions of carrying out any attack on Israel, but Israel probably has a right to feel threatened.

However, I certainly don't think that anybody in their right mind should actually support or desire Iran to attack Israel (as was inferred by London_Calling)
 
Panda: Yes really because although he FORMALLY renounced any leadership position upon conviction he was still signing off on all armed actions as he himself, as well as Robben Island mates all attest to. Mandela stressed to the outside leadership that while incracerated he sis not want to become the focal point for the movement, that he wished it to remain current and alive, and yet they still sought his ok and he still gave it so semantics will not save you this time.

Nino: You aksed for proof, you got it, what VP does or does not say is not of any consequence as far as THAT goes...but I do have to say, AS PREDICTED. Feels good though...
 
Rose: Ahmadinejad is quite clear on who and what he means. As a self described religious Muslim that means nothing but an Islamic nation may exist anywhere in the middle-East. It is not debatable. What guise this dissolution would take though is. in this area again he is quite clear. as he said when quting his hero Khomenei, "wipe it off the face (of the planet)."
 
Panda: Yes really because although he FORMALLY renounced any leadership position upon conviction he was still signing off on all armed actions as he himself, as well as Robben Island mates all attest to. Mandela stressed to the outside leadership that while incracerated he sis not want to become the focal point for the movement, that he wished it to remain current and alive, and yet they still sought his ok and he still gave it so semantics will not save you this time.

Nino: You aksed for proof, you got it, what VP does or does not say is not of any consequence as far as THAT goes...but I do have to say, AS PREDICTED. Feels good though...

Oh? And where is this proof that you claim exists?

You keep uttering the word "semantics" whenever VP puts you on the spot. Can't you muster a proper response without taking refuge behind a misused word?
 
Nino, again, you asked for prrof in wirting that my statement claiming that Mandela led "Spear" was correct. I gave it. Now you ask for proof of something else without acknowledging you have been in error, so please do not imagine I will keep up toe dog and pony show until you deal with the first issue.

Panda did NOT "put (me) on the spot." I offered the requested proof, and then Panda tried to belittle it by saying "it was only for a year until he went to prison" as if that were even an issue being discussed. Ergo, it certainly was an issue of semantics (you ARE correct in that "semtnics" is NOT the apt word but it comes close enough in my reckoning)... as usual, and now back to the thread...
 
Nino, again, you asked for prrof in wirting that my statement claiming that Mandela led "Spear" was correct. I gave it. Now you ask for proof of something else without acknowledging you have been in error, so please do not imagine I will keep up toe dog and pony show until you deal with the first issue.

Panda did NOT "put (me) on the spot." I offered the requested proof, and then Panda tried to belittle it by saying "it was only for a year until he went to prison" as if that were even an issue being discussed. Ergo, it certainly was an issue of semantics (you ARE correct in that "semtnics" is NOT the apt word but it comes close enough in my reckoning)... as usual, and now back to the thread...

Well, your post certainly gives the impression that Mandela was directing military ops from Robben Island. Perhaps you would like to read your own post again?

You chuck out the word "semantics" (as well as phrases like "character assassination") whenever you're put on the spot or caught lying. However the way in which you use the word is not appropriate and, though you acknowledge this, you continue to misuse it.
 
Nino: Naturally there was removal from everyday ops but the truth of the matter is, Mandela admitted signing off on each and every major armed action undertaken by Spear while incracerated. Like it or not, it is what it is.

I will again point out that you challenged me for information, I provided it QUICKLY, You seem to be the one making excuses and dogding issues but let us call it whatever you want as long as we can get back to the thread, ok?
 
Nino: Naturally there was removal from everyday ops but the truth of the matter is, Mandela admitted signing off on each and every major armed action undertaken by Spear while incracerated. Like it or not, it is what it is.

I will again point out that you challenged me for information, I provided it QUICKLY, You seem to be the one making excuses and dogding issues but let us call it whatever you want as long as we can get back to the thread, ok?

You have provided nothing but insane accusations; historical revisions and poisonous rants. It is interesting that you should choose the struggle against Apartheid to illustrate some of your more whacked out thoughts. The simple truth is that Israel tacitly (or not) supported the Apartheid regime of South Africa and it did so completely cognizant of both the country's pariah status in the world and its continued racist policies.
 
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