Mail on Sunday in "Paddick is a have a go hero" shocker!

Discussion in 'Brixton' started by editor, Feb 24, 2002.

  1. Mrs Magpie

    Mrs Magpie On a bit of break...

    The penny drops! You pay loads of dosh and you get the best! Now I know why Railtrack and Enron are such resounding successes!
  2. Drive Like Jehu

    Drive Like Jehu Slack Daddy

    Thank you!

    My God, what a bleak perspective you have.

    Would you care to expand on your reasons for being so pessimistic?
  3. editor

    editor hiraethified

    "Someone asked WTF has money to do with it. I suspect it has absolutely everything to do with it."

    Seeing as the poster was asking what your wages for researching the article had to do with the subject in hand, I suspect it has absolutely nothing to do with it.

    And seeing as you were only the researcher for the (unspecified) piece, how might you have 'ripped me out and taken me to the cleaners'? And whatever for? You'd never spoken to me in your life.

    And yes, I am still pissed off by your threatening mail. I assume you stand by your words, so may I reproduce it in full here?
  4. nick

    nick Pleomorphic Adenomas R us

    LOL at Mrs Magpie's top answer

    Associated Newspapers pride themselves in investing heavily in their product - this includes the wages of their journalists who are probably the highest paid in the industry. Whether that impacts upon the quality of the prioduct is for you to decide ;). But it might help to explain where Ema's cash = quality argument comes from (sorry if I am misinterpreting your stance Ema)

    Yes Santaria, the editorial teams of Daily Mail, Mail on Sunday and Evening Standard are completely separate. There is a well established rivalry between the titles and they will happily scoop or spike each other's stories and poach staff.

    Ema - if you do work at Northcliffe House please could you phone 555 and ask the helpdesk to explain to you how to stop the double postings ta.
  5. Bookere

    Bookere who cares

    Just a few points Ema,

    Where the hell is all this money going to come from, I'm sure you're not going to vote for a government who demands 75% of this enourmous salary you boast about.

    Well things do change, and generally (not always) they change for the better. 20 years ago we had riots in Brixton caused by a heavy handed police policy towards the local community. I think in many ways things have moved on a long way from then, although they still have a long way to go.

    In which parts of the world do you see a future? I'm not sure I can share your scepticism of this country, unless of course you'd like to see us return to the days of having an Empire.
  6. TopCat

    TopCat It's hard it faster

    has anyone got a link to this article?
  7. TinyCrendon

    TinyCrendon New Member

    Just seen this thread...were you reffering to me "Eva" or Ellen as you posted earlier. The insulting comments about "oi journo" or however you put it.

    Funny stuff...made me laugh anyway.

    Firstly use your real name like I do, put your email down like I do. And you've been in the business 40 years ? (sheesh, too long) And you still do research for other people, after that amount of time? Hmmm....and you dont like people talking about the drug problem because they can't instantaneously do something about it. Then you write a huge diatribe slagging off policemen...

    Why not put your office number up here then so we can talk ? There are plenty of other journalists on this site who aren't so frightened about leaving their real names here either...Ive pointed out this thread to them.

    And as regulars to the site know I was at Associated for around six years. Still do work for em sometimes, have pals there still...just been on the phone this morning to em in fact.

    But if thats a real journo I will, once again, dance with my cat in an outrageous fashion. Real name and email please or I wont reply...

    And Mike: put the mail up. Let's see it.
  8. editor

    editor hiraethified

    Topcat: there were two articles in the paper and I'm still not sure which one Ema was involved in (or maybe it was both?).

    The main article was, more or less, a page-full of selective cut and paste quotes directly off these boards under the heading,
    "The bizarre thoughts of the gay police chief who finds anarchy attractive'.

    (Note: Paddick actually said, "the concept of anarchism has always appealed to me", not "I find anarchy attractive").

    The other article was a well written analysis by Suzanne Moore, which rightly pointed out that his sexuality wasn't what the issue - the problems of drugs and policing in Brixton was.

    Unfortunately, it seems that the Mail/MOS aren't quite up to speed with technology and haven't got a website, so I can't post up a link to the articles.
  9. Ema Petrova

    Ema Petrova Guest

    Re: Thank you!

    Yes, it may merely be pessimism.

    If you just look at the basics surely there is cause for concern. We have a very poor educational system starved of investment and direction for four decades or more; ditto, transport; ditto health service; ditto manufacturing industry.

    None of us are going to change any of that and neither is any government of whatever hue. I believe it is beyond repair and that it is far too late in all of those fields and IF I am correct where will that take us?

    It's only what I think.

  10. Carasek

    Carasek Guest

    I think you need a change of perspective, Ema. Having recently travelled around south east asia, I was surprised to find myself grateful for the standard of Health/Transport/Education back at home. Much of this is relative.

    Anyway, you are terribly pessimistic - perhaps something of a pre-requisite in your profession, but a little sad nonetheless. Rarely is anything beyond hope - the fact that you feel this way is perhaps indicative of growing too old, too quickly.

    The problems are not insurmountable, though I tend to share some of your concerns that most of the current politicians of every party are somewhat bereft of solutions. Anyway, keep up the rantings, Ema - it passes time admirably.
  11. Drive Like Jehu

    Drive Like Jehu Slack Daddy

    I think you'll find a lot of people here who share that view, or at agree that education, transport and the health service require more investment.


    What's the best way to fund it?

    Oh, and welcome to the boards.
  12. Ema Petrova

    Ema Petrova Guest

    I believe there is plenty of money in this country to pay such salaries. Most of it goes on employing large numbers of people in government to do nothing worthwhile at all. The biggest growth industry in England is bureaucracy. As an amusing example, from December 2003 all horses and ponies will have to have "passports". The government have decided that additionally all of them will be numbered. That should keep an army of civil servants going: I foresee whole new departments.

    Departments like Environment, Transport and the Regions, Culture, the former MAFF, the Ministry of Defence, the Home Office haemorrhage money by the minute. They all do so because there is no economic control over any of it and virtually no accountability worth that description. In most of these cases we are talking many millions, not hundreds of thousands.

    We live in an age where government departments spend hundreds of thousands on designing logo's, on hiring "special advisers" (even better paid than me pro rata per days worked) instead of putting the money where it matters: at the grass roots of the key services everyone depends upon.

    How on earth did we manage 30 years ago without NHS Trusts and an administration which now amounts to one manager for each hospital bed? You could make a modest start, probably, by sacking 90 per cent of them and dividing their salaries among the nurses. Hospitals used to run without this bureaucracy. There was a manager on non-clinical matters and a Matron (s) on the medical side. This year the government have set aside £4m to meet expected NHS negligence claims - £40m over the past decade.

    History shows that once you have created a monolith like that it can not be dissembled easily.

    Brixton has not been repeated as you say. But we've had Bradford and Oldham and elsewhere and no doubt there will be more. The generally poor standard of education is bound to lead to racial tension because so many people are not bright enough to think about the matter logically and properly.

    Surely the key things for people are health and education. How have they improved over the past decade? What signs do you see that improvement is on the way?

    Instead of trying to educate people - which would solve half the problems outlined on this forum - we now try to stand in their way. We charge students for learning, we impoverish them before they even start. Ireland decided it was counter-productive to charge fees for university after years of doing so. They dropped their charges just as we introduced ours. We have now introduced a whole generation who will START their working life in debt and I certainly know a few young people who decided they could not afford to go to university although their results would indicate they were good material.

    When you look at world history it seems to show that each geographical area or country has it's moment. In the 15th century, Spain and Portugal predominated in many fields, joined by England. Our "golden age" if it was such was in the 18th century when we created the Empire.

    We did many wonderful things and, as with all nations, many quite atrocious things as well. We certainly cannot go back to it: I just believe that was "our time" and that things have now moved on and it will not be our time again for many, many centuries.

    I imagine America will gain even greater strength but who, for example, can predict what the role of China and Asia will be in say one hundred years? Enormous population, enormous resources, mostly still untapped. Russia, I believe, has the world's largest resource of oil and minerals, 80 per cent or more of it still untapped.

    India has yet to develop properly although Bangladesh has now overtaken America in IT skills and technology and we are hiring their people in because we do not have people in this country with the required skills. In the last six months, the government granted work permits to more than 10,000 IT experts from India and Bangladesh because the skills required were not available among our own population.

    I do not see that as a healthy sign and neither do I see any government with the will and determination to change it, least of all one who wants to effectively charge young people for learning that type of skill.

    For a country to flourish and grow, it needs to be able to find skill among it's own populace, to be as self sufficient as possible whatever the ethnic mix. There is no long term future in "buying in" so far as I can see.

    I imagine in time that China, Asia, India will be the predominant regions of the world plus America which is so large economically that it is virtually it's own world and is usually little affected by what is happening elsewhere.

    I pay and have paid a lot of money in tax. My resentment is that, increasingly, it goes in tiers of bureaucracy which do not help any of us in the things we most need.

    I see nothing to indicate that is going to change. People die on a bloodstained hospital trolley while someone upstairs works as a "Team Leader" producing yet another "Best Practice" report. Tell me there is a will to change that and I'll stop being so pessimistic.

    I am not a political animal in any way at all. I am suspicious of all politicians, whatever their party. I do firmly believe that people who CAN pay for things should do so leaving the state to find the money for those who cannot pay. I don't know what that makes me but I think it is more just.

    Of course a country needs to be administered but the present culture is wasting billions a year, at least some of which could be used to perhaps make a difference to the problems people have talked about.

    There is the money, I believe, but not the will to change things.

  13. mach v

    mach v la-di-dah liberal wuss


    too much text. care to summarise for those (like me) with less time on their hands? I'm not understanding your motivation in posting here, either. Are you a Lambeth resident or is your link the one of researcher for the MoS?

    is a summary of your last few posts "Life's shit and then you die"? Cheer up, you should get out more.:)
  14. Carasek

    Carasek Guest

    Ema, I agree with much of what you say, but surely nearly all of this is pretty recent? The obvious exception is the NHS, which has been treated abominably for at least 20 years, leading to endemic problems that will take many years of investment, and new structures, to bring it up to an acceptable standard.

    However, many of the other issues you raise are measures brought in by hook or by crook by this Government - with a "special advisor" round every corner. The financial waste, and dangerous threat to democracy are obvious, but these are not permanent, insurmountable problems. Of course, this administration will not change things for the better and reduce the red-tape (and all those who administer said tape), but one day we will not have this lot in power. Of course I'm not saying that the Tories offer much better, but something has to be done. Hmmm - I'm making myself depressed now!

    The fact remains, though, that many of the issues you highlight are relatively recent developments, and as such are not yet an all-pervasive cancer. Many backbenchers are revolting, in both senses of the word, and they recognise that they may form a significant "alter-opposition" at the next election and beyond. Thatcher changed a lot in her time, Blair will do likewise, but there's always the next generation. Your pessimism harks of having given up - you may be a realist, but sometimes reality comes back to kick you in the teeth when you least expect it.
  15. TopCat

    TopCat It's hard it faster

    Mike, post up the pm here...Privacy isues never stopped you when you and me were having a little spat!
  16. TopCat

    TopCat It's hard it faster

    Oh and ema..Guy Zitter likes to read the posts here..
  17. editor

    editor hiraethified

    In almost all cases, private messages should remain just that, but seeing as Ema's comments seemed aimed at the whole u75 community as well as me personally, I think she should have no problem in me reproducing them here for everyone to 'enjoy'.

    So do I have your permission, Ema? Or do you wish to retract and apologise for some of your comments?
  18. William of Walworth

    William of Walworth Festographer

    Blimey, cliffhanger .. I'm back to this thread tomorrow!!

    [reluctantly leaves]
  19. TinyCrendon

    TinyCrendon New Member

    Cmaaahhhhnnn Mikey, lets getit orrrrrrrrrnnn !

    <gathers schoolyard reprobates around him>

    Show show show show show show show show show show show show show show show show show show show show show show show show show show show show show show show !!!
  20. Carasek

    Carasek Guest

    I believe that Ema has been given fair warning that unless she withdrew previous comment, her email would be aired. Go on, you know you want to! :D :D
  21. Mrs Magpie

    Mrs Magpie On a bit of break...

    mmmmm Ema is strangely quiet or is she busy writing another turgid tome?...obviously frustrated hack very significantly stuck for 40 years as a lowly researcher for the tabloids ho hum. Strange she hasn't worked that one out and gone for another career, The frustration in her every word is actually full of bathos.
  22. Carasek

    Carasek Guest

    Reading her diatribe fills me with pathos, Mrs Magpie.

    Bring on the email transcript!
  23. Mrs Magpie

    Mrs Magpie On a bit of break...

    was it 40 years she has been a researcher? She isn't exactly interesting to read, and I went and watched a bit of paint drying for a bit for some light relief, hope I got that 40 years right, but her words seem strangely blurred and more meaningless with every sentence.
  24. Drive Like Jehu

    Drive Like Jehu Slack Daddy

    Which option do you think is the fairer?

    Increased direct taxation based on income, and everyone gets the same standard of health care / education?

    Or allowing people to choose to pay directly for a 'higher' level of care, and spending the money saved on the rest of the population? (assuming this would actually happen).
  25. TinyCrendon

    TinyCrendon New Member

    Here is section 4 of the PCC Code. No reason.

    4 *Harassment
    i) Journalists and photographers must neither obtain nor seek to obtain information or pictures through intimidation, harassment or persistent pursuit

    ii) They must not photograph individuals in private places (as defined by the note to clause 3) without their consent; must not persist in telephoning, questioning, pursuing or photographing individuals after having been asked to desist; must not remain on their property after having been asked to leave and must not follow them.

    iii) Editors must ensure that those working for them comply with these requirements and must not publish material from other sources which does not meet these requirements.

    Anyway...back to the show show show show show show show show show show show show show show show show show show show show show show show show show show show.
  26. Mrs Magpie

    Mrs Magpie On a bit of break...

    I've had a really horrible day and she has set herself up as such an easy target. Do I feel like a shit for slagging her off and pointing out that Ema means bucket? No actually, I think it's mildly amusing and it's cheered up my day a smidge. Also I am aged and in my time have paid loads of tax and have probably paid for her education. I feel horribly cheated.
  27. wildwildlifer

    wildwildlifer Rather small member

    The Mail On Sunday Smear

    I noticed our self-styled Essex Girl who was very coy about her claimed involvement with a previous smear attempt, browsing the new Mail On Sunday thread, doubtless smirking with satisfaction. As yet she has not commented.
    Perhaps she's decided we're all half-wits who earn less than 75,000 pounds a year, and do not speak 5 languages, including a new one on me , called Guderjati!
  28. limeynick

    limeynick New Member

    Thank you!

    Err, if you're still browsing these boards u can shove that comment up your arse sideways. I'm in the process of applying for the police, not because I want to become a state-sanctioned bovver-boy, as u seem to suggest, but because I would like to play a constructive role within my community. I can string sentences together perfectly well thank-you very much and, as this seems to be a pre-requisite for general worthiness in ur eyes, have two degrees. Given my recent experiences talking to police officers in an effort to find out more about the job, I think your comments are unfounded and extremely insulting.
  29. crash12bandit

    crash12bandit New Member

    Ema.. I think your an irritating, selfsatisfying, over paid, over estimated, runt. I hope you go away. It appears that your infinate wisdom and high aspirations, leave a lot to be desired. You have infuriated me with your piontless drivel. Your subordiation of thoes who post on this site is remarkable, your attitude towards thoes who cannot find the means to execute the intentions they hold true to their hearts it aborant. I detest the manner in which you generalise points that you clearly know nothing about.

    I don't like you. - it appears we have a new Derek!:mad:

    Oh Mike... can we have a slap Ema ???? Please????!!:D

    edited to add... *head slumpped*.. I do agree with you on the beurocracy bit tho.
  30. editor

    editor hiraethified

    Just a note: all Ema Petrova's postings here have been archived - including the highly offensive PM she sent to me.

    Once again I ask her to either defend those comments - either here or by PM - otherwise I will be obliged to repost them for all to see...

    You call, Ema.

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