Thank you frogwoman for taking the time to explain a few things to our new ME member
salaam.
hear hear ....
Mad Settlers attack the IDF
- Thread starter frogwoman
- Start date
hear hear ....
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
Obama's choice of Rahmbo as his Chief of Staff would suggest that it's business as usual.
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
ymu
Niall Ferguson's deep-cover sock-puppet
Cheers frogster. 
Mossawa - it's no more acceptable to label all Jews as racists than it is to label all Muslims as terrorists. Both statements are laughable; they demonstrate only the ignorance and simple-minded bigotry of those who say such things. You started a thread before that suggested you were seeking to understand more of the history of how the ME ended up in this mess, but you don't seem to have digested the responses you got. We don't do racism here, and you won't last long if you carry on like this.
Mossawa - it's no more acceptable to label all Jews as racists than it is to label all Muslims as terrorists. Both statements are laughable; they demonstrate only the ignorance and simple-minded bigotry of those who say such things. You started a thread before that suggested you were seeking to understand more of the history of how the ME ended up in this mess, but you don't seem to have digested the responses you got. We don't do racism here, and you won't last long if you carry on like this.
frogwoman
Let them eat newts
i should also add that Israel does have a place in Jewish theology, because the Jews were exiled from it, according to biblical teachings, either during the Babylonian period, or during 70 AD or several periods in between.
Basically, Israel has three meanings - the Jewish people, the land (of Palestine or Eretz Israel) or the zionist state. Israel - the Jews - were the "chosen people" and Israel - the land - became the "chosen land" for them to live. but nowhere does it say in the torah that Jews HAVE to live in Israel, or that non-jews can't live there. strictly speaking, zionism is a sacrilege to very orthodox Jews because, according to Biblical prophecy, the Jews were banished from Eretz Israel because of their sins and don't have a right to return until the messiah's arrival. Furthermore the state of israel was born of violence whereas the Messiah was meant to bring peace to the world.
the "israel" of jewish prayers means the jewish people, not the state, despite what some zionists believe - ie that judaism and zionism are identical - they are not.
the "promised land" and the "world to come" also occupy a very similar place in jewish theology and some jews even think they refer to the same thing - ie the afterlife, or a "spiritual" Israel where people will go when they die. Its all very confusing.
Biblical Israel btw covers a vastly larger area than the mandate of Palestine - including parts of Iraq, Jordan, Syria and even Turkey. apart from the more aggressive passages in the Torah there is very little to justify zionism in its present day form, in the bible.
Basically, Israel has three meanings - the Jewish people, the land (of Palestine or Eretz Israel) or the zionist state. Israel - the Jews - were the "chosen people" and Israel - the land - became the "chosen land" for them to live. but nowhere does it say in the torah that Jews HAVE to live in Israel, or that non-jews can't live there. strictly speaking, zionism is a sacrilege to very orthodox Jews because, according to Biblical prophecy, the Jews were banished from Eretz Israel because of their sins and don't have a right to return until the messiah's arrival. Furthermore the state of israel was born of violence whereas the Messiah was meant to bring peace to the world.
the "israel" of jewish prayers means the jewish people, not the state, despite what some zionists believe - ie that judaism and zionism are identical - they are not.
the "promised land" and the "world to come" also occupy a very similar place in jewish theology and some jews even think they refer to the same thing - ie the afterlife, or a "spiritual" Israel where people will go when they die. Its all very confusing.
Biblical Israel btw covers a vastly larger area than the mandate of Palestine - including parts of Iraq, Jordan, Syria and even Turkey. apart from the more aggressive passages in the Torah there is very little to justify zionism in its present day form, in the bible.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Well said.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
For the nationalist-Zionists, the existence of such people is a constant reminder of their lies and prejudices.
Idris2002
Stay Alive in '25
ymu
Niall Ferguson's deep-cover sock-puppet
There have been Jews living in Palestine for over 2000 years. Some ended up on the Palestinian side of the green line after the Nakba and some who ended up in what we now know as Israel still call themselves Palestinians. The Neturei Karta are notorious for this self-designation, but it's not that uncommon amongst non-orthodox and secular Jewish Israelis. I've certainly met a couple or three.Jewish Palestinians, eh? Got any more on that one?
Q: "When did you come to Israel?
A: "I didn't, Israel came to me.
Mizrahi Jews are Arabs, of course. IIRC, some argue that the term "Mizrahi Jew" was coined because the term Arab-Jew was counter-productive from a propaganda point of view. This article is interesting, anyway. Reflections of an Arab Jew
And there's always Jeff Halper, the world's only known American-Israeli-Palestinian Jew.
Err...how about also because new ideologies and organizations threaten the power and influence of the people that head up existing ones within a people/faith?
pk
drink flounce rinse repeat
Thank you frogwoman for taking the time to explain a few things to our new ME member
salaam.
Froggy's one of the soundest people on this here website, aye.
frogwoman
Let them eat newts
frogwoman
Let them eat newts
"fascist" is the best word to describe the settlers tbh (the radical ideological settlers, not the poor sods with the misfortune to have been "encouraged" to live there by the government)
plenty of people go on about how bad and terrible the settlers are but not many people listen to what they're actually saying
it's basically the same as any other fascist ideology anywhere in the world. religion - as in obeying all the laws of the torah - doesn't come into it as much as does ethnocentric jewish nationalism
pk
drink flounce rinse repeat
Yup. Nutjobs, one and all.
It's the kids you feel sorry for, being born into all that hate and shit.
frogwoman
Let them eat newts
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
The irony of ironies! Olmert likens the settler attacks to "pogroms".
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
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